Lutz: 60-100k Volts in First Year of Production

[Odin]

As long as GM irons out any bugs etc, setting that target is good. Just don't want to hear about some huge recall six months into production.

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Jive

What did they mean "with a more traditional front-end"? The front-end of the Volt looked to be the only part of it production ready...

Good point... if anything the side windows and rear needed to be ironed out... but the front should stay the same!

[sigma]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

I dont believe those numbers. That's very high for this car in its first year.
Aren't prices for these gonna be pretty high as well?? Like $28-30,000 each?

We'll see.

Now... how many people here on GMI are gonna bitch and moan about the batteries being Korean??

Reread the article. The LG batteries are obviously Korean but the A123 Systems batteries are American. The company is headquartered right around Boston.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by sigma

Reread the article. The LG batteries are obviously Korean but the A123 Systems batteries are American. The company is headquartered right around Boston.

The first set of batteries come from LG.
That's Korean. That's what I'm pointing to.

I don't care about A123. They're a small time player. And against a juggernaut like LG?? A123 needs more capital and economies of scale.

Unless A123 is acquired by a larger player (GE or something), or receives more capital than the $100M they have now, they will have a tuff time against large players like LG or Panasonic or Seimens.

[K-1]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

The first set of batteries come from LG.
That's Korean. That's what I'm pointing to.

I don't care about A123. They're a small time player. And against a juggernaut like LG?? A123 needs more capital and economies of scale.

Unless A123 is acquired by a larger player (GE or something), or receives more capital than the $100M they have now, they will have a tuff time against large players like LG or Panasonic or Seimens.

A123 is the proprietor of the patent-pending Nanophosphate Li-Ion batteries. "Small time" or not, they are the innovators here.

[jckjds]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

The first set of batteries come from LG.
That's Korean. That's what I'm pointing to.

I don't care about A123. They're a small time player. And against a juggernaut like LG?? A123 needs more capital and economies of scale.

Unless A123 is acquired by a larger player (GE or something), or receives more capital than the $100M they have now, they will have a tuff time against large players like LG or Panasonic or Seimens.

A123 worked in conjunction with MIT, right? If so, the brainpower is clearly there. $100M is certainly a good start from a capital standpoint, and, if A123's technology proves to be superior, I'm sure GM (and perhaps others) will figure out where additional capital would come from. I'm just not worried about that. Now the engineering hurdles? Those are worth worrying about.

Battery technology (and any other "energy storage" technology) will be the limiting reagent in changing our overall energy policy (i.e. moving away from fossil fuels). Now that there is a serious economic reason to develop these technologies, I'm very excited to see what will come down the pipeline.

[jckjds]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Jive

What did they mean "with a more traditional front-end"? The front-end of the Volt looked to be the only part of it production ready...
Also, what could he have meant by "the engine-motor configuration didn't work. ... Now it has a more classic-looking front end"? What's considered "classic"?
I was really hopping the Volt would make it through mostly unchanged...

I too am interested in see what the Volt will look like. I actually thought that the Volt was a little too over-the-top for my taste. I wouldn't likely purchase a Volt unless it was relatively mainstream looking (think Saab 9-3).

However, that's just my subjective opinion. I think the Prius is uglier than sin, but lots of people have bought those.

[Wolfman01]

I think many here are underestimating the public reaction to the Volt. Toyota grossly underestimated the response to the Gen 3 (second gen here) Prius. The Volt is going to make the Prius and HSD obsolete, if and when GM gets the Volt in the showroom. I have a 100 mile round trip commute. I'm drooling heavily over the concept of purchasing one, and am only waiting for a date firm for being produced, before putting a deposit for a pre-order. I have the gut feeling that 100k will prove to be an underestimation.

[Puzzel]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Jive

What did they mean "with a more traditional front-end"? The front-end of the Volt looked to be the only part of it production ready...
Also, what could he have meant by "the engine-motor configuration didn't work. ... Now it has a more classic-looking front end"? What's considered "classic"?
I was really hopping the Volt would make it through mostly unchanged...

Given the original quote, I think they will maintain the outward appearance of the concept. However, the layout of the E-Flex drive system, electric motor and range-extender gas engine will not be the same. Likely, they had to move the engine to the front for cooling issues -- so it will be like an electric car with a generator mounted to the front bumper. At most, the front axle will probably be moved back a bit -- "classic" as in some front overhang maybe.

Either way, GM must follow through and bring this into production with a 40 mile range (preferably 50+). The only drawback for me will be the lack of a manual transmission, since they will undoubtedly use a CVT.

[Wolfman01]

Originally Posted by Puzzel

Given the original quote, I think they will maintain the outward appearance of the concept. However, the layout of the E-Flex drive system, electric motor and range-extender gas engine will not be the same. Likely, they had to move the engine to the front for cooling issues -- so it will be like an electric car with a generator mounted to the front bumper. At most, the front axle will probably be moved back a bit -- "classic" as in some front overhang maybe.

Either way, GM must follow through and bring this into production with a 40 mile range (preferably 50+). The only drawback for me will be the lack of a manual transmission, since they will undoubtedly use a CVT.

There will be no manual transmission, because there is NO transmission in the Volt to be had - period. The only thing driving the wheels, will be the electric motor. They have no need for a transmission, as there is no idling at a light, and electric motors have a sufficient RPM range, and torque curve, to eliminate any need for one. The gasoline engine will ONLY be powering a generator, and will be providing NO direct mechanical linkage to the drive wheels.

Please take the time to read up on the vehicle, before making assumptions.

[Butz]

Why a Korean battery? I thought they were collaborating with A123 Systems, not LG!

[Puzzel]

Originally Posted by Wolfman01

There will be no manual transmission, because there is NO transmission in the Volt to be had - period. The only thing driving the wheels, will be the electric motor. They have no need for a transmission, as there is no idling at a light, and electric motors have a sufficient RPM range, and torque curve, to eliminate any need for one. The gasoline engine will ONLY be powering a generator, and will be providing NO direct mechanical linkage to the drive wheels.

Please take the time to read up on the vehicle, before making assumptions.

If you had read my whole post, you would realize that I did read up on the vehicle. The only statement on Chevrolet.com (i.e. readily accessible documentation) concerning power transmission from electric motor to wheels is "Electric Drive system", which to me does not equal "direct drive". Further research has produced similarly vague statements about the bits between the motor and the wheels. It is quite possible (and likely) that there is a CVT-type of connection or at the very least a gear-reduction system. From the cut-away diagrams of the Volt, it looks like a small transaxle-style transmission to me. Do you have blueprints or detailed specifications for the "Electric Drive system"?

It is quite possible to mount an electric motor to a manual transmission: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/014.html. And I'm not quite sure where the "idling" statement came from.

Please watch where you point that "assume" stick. And thank you for the brief but wholly unnecessary education on electric motors.

[MechEng]

Originally Posted by Butz

Why a Korean battery? I thought they were collaborating with A123 Systems, not LG!

GM is working with both A123 systems and LG. GM didn't put it's eggs in one basket.

[Bornfromparents]

Originally Posted by MechEng

GM is working with both A123 systems and LG. GM didn't put it's eggs in one basket.

A123 is the enginering part of the equation and LG is the manufdacturing part of the eq

[BlacLac02]

so what kind of performance numbers are we looking at with a car like this.
people are always asking what the gas mileage is in a sports car liek a vette, so what kind of 0-60 are we looking at in a car that gets its power from batteries???