GM To Reduce Gas Tank Size for Volt

[tigger#76]

Originally Posted by member12

Not sure about that.

Drive all day for work on battery power, but at the end of the day your car is spent and you only have a 7 gallons of gas (7x35mpg....245 miles), and not enough range to make it all the way to a weekend getaway.

I don't know about this, but then again, I have no idea how the car works.

It seems like it would be miserable to drive on long trips..having to stop so often for fuel. It does have re-generative braking, therefore works like a Prius when the "plug in" charge is depleted?

That means that 40 miles on pure electricity and then 45-50 mpg average after that. Not bad at all.

The mileage when running the ICE will be much higher than 35mpg. The engine is only used for charging, not for propulsion. That means it's basically just a generator and it can be tuned to run at one rpm, which will allow them to get the efficiency way up versus an engine that is used to propel a car and has to run through a range of rpms constantly. A 5000 watt generator can run for about 3.5 hours on about 2 gallons of gas (some get a little better fuel usage). I don't know the wattage the Volt will need, but they will basically be able to calculate the fuel tank size based on how long (time) they want the ICE to run rather than how far (distance) it will propel the car.

When you combine this news with the idea floated earlier of possibly releasing a Volt version with half the battery pack (well, half the distance on a charge at least) in order to make a budget version (saving thousands on the cost of the batteries) GM may offer 20 miles Volt as low cost option and I think the Volt has the possibility to really make an impact for GM. Especially if the LeftLaneNews report about the Volt coming out a year early is correct.

[plane]

The Prius has been said to get around 47 mpg.
The Volt ICE can run at a single speed, or two speeds if necessary.
GM can use direct injection and run much higher compression and keep it lean.
HCCI might even be a possibility.

With non-Daewoo engineering, 60 miles per gallon should be a cake walk.
70 miles per gallon might even be believable.

Wouldn't it be damn ironic though if GM used a Honda generator?
perish the thought.....

[FoMoCo Fan]

Originally Posted by member12

BTW, this might save them 85 lbs...tops.

It's not for weight savings. It must be for space.

Every OUNCE is important when it comes to efficency. Let alone 85 lbs.

[GMusa]

I say thats a bad idea... It would look so much better in commericals saying it had a 600 mile range!!

[tigger#76]

Originally Posted by GMusa

I say thats a bad idea... It would look so much better in commericals saying it had a 600 mile range!!

Tough choice. Is it better to say it has a 600 mile range or that it has a longer battery only range (which is what the weight savings could equate to)? Is it better to say it has a 600 mile range or that it has several extra cubic feet of storage space or leg room?

There are plusses and minuses to making the decision, but from a pure psychological stand point, I think that saying you can go on the same road trip but it costs half as much to fill up the tank would have more impact then telling people they can drive twice as far on the same amount of gas. This is pure speculation on my part of course, but it seems like most people would connect better with half the cost than twice the distance. I could easily be wrong.

[ral1960]

Since the battery fits under the back seat, where the gas tank usually goes, the tank has to go further back, where it will need more protection from collisions. A smaller tank will save more structural weight, in addition to the weight of the gas.

[plane]

Look, we all know this thread is a waste of time.
The Volt is nothing but a publicity stunt that won't be out until after 2015, if at all.
This is like arguing over the color and size of Easter Bunny ears.

[djo165]

I vote for fitting a fuel tank large enough so that the overall range exceeds that of the average car. That would be a selling point to some people, and every advantage helps.

[ral1960]

The Easter Bunny has white ears, except when they're chocolate.
He also has a blue tooth. I don't know about nav.

[blkwrxsti]

Originally Posted by djo165

I vote for fitting a fuel tank large enough so that the overall range exceeds that of the average car. That would be a selling point to some people, and every advantage helps.

These people are really doofuses - this quote bothers me the most:

"The 12-gallon tank would have given the Volt a range of 600 miles – in addition to the lithium-ion battery pack’s range of 40 miles – but GM decided the 12-gallon unit was a bit of over kill, according to Kicking Tires....The average car today has a range of between 300 and 400 miles. "

I hate to point at the elephant in the room - but the Volt will not be competing with the average car today, it will be competing with the next Toyota Prius (which has an 11.9 gallon tank today, with epa 45MPG highway = 535 mile range)

The other thing that bothers me is that people are assuming this will mean a smaller gas tank and more space in the car. Is GM planning on re-designing and re-tooling the body to do this? If the car is really slated to come out in 2010, this would be an expensive and a last-minute change (not to mention a big waste of time).

I do agree with the point that this could quickly take 30 - 50 lbs out of the car, which perhaps puts it in a lower EPA class.

[blkwrxsti]

BTW - I'm sure there's another reason, and that the "sufficiency" excuse is being used as a cover, but press releases like this really do nothing to dispel the notion that GM strives for mediocrity in whatever it does. I'm not sure what the real reason is - I think someone else commented on the proximity of the battery and the gas tank - maybe they ran their first crash simulation and realized that the battery might be pushed into the gas tank, so now the outer 2 inches of the gas tank has to be a crush space...

"GM says because most cars travel 40 miles or less each day, there was really no need to have a 12-gallon fuel tank — and the added weight — to extend the range by 600 miles."

Seriously - when you're asking people to spend $40K for a car, you have to pay attention to more than their "needs", you really might want to address some of their "wants", or heaven forbid, even delight the customer...

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by blkwrxsti

Seriously - when you're asking people to spend $40K for a car, you have to pay attention to more than their "needs", you really might want to address some of their "wants", or heaven forbid, even delight the customer...

The customer will be delighted if the Volt works like a regular car and electric range is to expectations. That's what really matters.

Even with a 7 gallon tank these are going to see gas stations far less than any other car on the road.
Have you ever heard "Sta-bil" used in a Prius discussion? Nuff said...

[member12]

When is this car going on sale? I heard 2010, then I heard 2012, and I think that I read 2011 recently as a 2012 model.....

As long as the Japanese cars are exluded from the tax break for at least the first few years....

[detltu]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Meh. When you think about it, most people who purchase a Volt will only use it to get to work and back. I bet that the vast majority will only use the reserve gas a few times a year.

Originally Posted by eaton53

Smaller tank = less gas sitting in the tank for long periods of time.

This is the reason for it. If your commute is 50-60 miles round trip then you would only use 1/4-1/2 of a gallon a day if you plug in every night. With a full 12 gallon tank you could go 24-48 days without filling up. Thats a long time for the gas to sit in the tank.

[uujjj]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Meh. When you think about it, most people who purchase a Volt will only use it to get to work and back. I bet that the vast majority will only use the reserve gas a few times a year.

I'd say that's the idea.