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Comparison: Camaro SS 1LE vs. Challenger R/T Scat Pack vs. Mustang GT

18K views 158 replies 45 participants last post by  mchicha 
#1 ·
Not Their First Rodeo: Once More Into the Ponycar Breach
MotorTrend
December 2014
By: Jonny Lieberman


It is in fact like déjà vu all over again. This comparison test goes back decades -- literally. The world first saw the Ford Mustang in 1964. Chevrolet followed up Ford's ponycar lead with the Camaro in 1966, and Mopar mashed up A- and B-bodies to create the Dodge Challenger in 1969. The Mustang never went anywhere, but both the Camaro and the Challenger exited the bullring at some point, only to come roaring back in recent times.

Defining what exactly makes a ponycar is tricky, but you can boil it down to a few key attributes. One is they're blatantly American. Another is long-hood, short-deck styling suggesting a corral full of horsepower. Each of the cars in this test kicks out well over 400 hp. The last bit is that they're not pure sports cars -- they're sedan-based. The Challenger rides on Chrysler's LX platform; the Camaro's a cut-down Holden Commodore; and the all-new Mustang still contains traces of Lincoln LS, most notably the floorpan, which results in a high heel point.

Full article available at link.
 
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#4 ·
I'm just going to come out and say it. The Mustang is a disappointment. In it's styling. In it's increased mass. Even with the Performance Pack, the current gen 1LE trounces it. It sounds like MT agrees with me.

For the sake of the Pony Car wars, I hope Ford quickens it's step on the Mustang, because when the 6th gen comes out, it ain't gonna be pretty for them.
 
#6 ·
Ford's problem is that they haven't been investing in larger engines. Maybe a Boss will come but I don't know how much life is left in that old 5.0L V8. The 3.5EB is ok, but ultimately its not enough for this game. Their only hope is for the SVT can beat the Z/28 or ZL1. Ford may need an emergency refresh to fix some of the performance issues with the suspension
 
#5 ·
I can't believe how MT basically appologizes for the Mustang, telling the reader remember how bad the Camaro was when it first came out, they're sure the Mustang will get better. P L E A S E! Give me a break! Bias much? It's like they were praying the Mustang would trounce the Pig Camaro!!
 
#10 · (Edited)
Not makng excuses here, a sports package should have good tires.

I wonder if this is simply a case of incorrect tire choice for Mustang's Track Pack?
How much better would it handle with 1LE's better rubber?

surely someone will try this seemingly small but significant change.
Perhaps Mustang buyers should be pressing Ford to improve their package..

From previous articles, it's clear that Ford went on an evolutionary journey with this Mustang,
one change at the rear, forced another then another and I wonder if the weight increase
was a concession that Ford was forced to make to prepare the car to accept the even
higher power planned later in the cycle.

Perhaps one of the reasons the earlier IRS was scrubbed in the 2005 was because of the
needed changes elsewhere, not forgetting the balance of economics in play with this car.

Has Mustang now been "prepped" in steel for a switch later to Aluminum?
That could explain why Ford is not too concerned with weight for the moment..
 
#11 ·
Not makng excuses here, a sports package should have good tires.

I wonder if this is simply a case of incorrect tire choice for Mustang's Track Pack?
How much better would it handle with 1LE's better rubber?

surely someone will try this seemingly small but significant change.
Perhaps Mustang buyers should be pressing Ford to improve their package..
Tires and dampers. Not to speak for Fords chassis engineers, but it seems obvious to me that they were going for a comfy ride on the Perf Pkg.
 
#16 ·
It's become clear to me that the Performance Pack is just not at the same performance level as the 1LE, although obviously superior in real-world comfort, as a result of tire and suspension tuning choices.

So, if you want a Mustang at the same performance level as the 1LE, you should get the regular GT, then upgrade to off-the-shelf suspension and tires.
 
#30 ·
So, if you want a Mustang at the same performance level as the 1LE, you should get the regular GT, then upgrade to off-the-shelf suspension and tires.
Achieving that will require much more than just "off-the-shelf suspension and tires." As mchicha mentioned, GM's deft application of lessons learned in motorsports is evident in Camaro's 1LE package.

Adding performance bits to a car is not difficult. Making those components work harmoniously as a well designed system is. The Camaro SS 1LE nails this. Maybe ROUSH Performance will figure out how to do the same for 2015 Mustang.
 
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#17 ·
While I can appreciate the performance of the Challenger (and even the mustang), Speed is nothing without control. The Camaro is better at providing that control than the other two. I am sure the Mustang will improve, but right now it is still too rough to compete in this category. In a few years it will be closer race.
 
#18 ·
I also find the change in tone of the press to be a bit strange... nothing but gushing praise for the outgoing car (live axle and all), and now venom for the redesigned version?

I think they're choosing the wrong cars to compare... why not a regular GT versus a regular SS?
 
#21 ·
I think they're choosing the wrong cars to compare... why not a regular GT versus a regular SS?
All three pony cars in this comparison offer a performance oriented package: 1LE for Camaro SS, Scat Pack for Challenger R/T, and Performance Pack for Mustang GT. These are the configurations that are most relevant to driving enthusiasts who read Motor Trend.
 
#19 ·
1LE did not come out the first year the new Camaro did. It took GM years to get the Camaro suspension right.

Yes the new Mustang is not the slay everything in its path car right now. I guess we will see how it matures. I did see a black one in the wild and will say it looks much better on the street than it does in pictures. The nice thing is, you cannot mistake it for anything other than a Mustang.

I will withhold judgement until I see how the car matures.
 
#20 ·
GM needs to capitalize on this homerun of a 5th gen. As I said in another thread there needs to be a special launch edition right at the start of the 6th gen intro.
King Camaro
Wunder wauffa Camaro,
Launch edition
Launch edition beeyotch,
SStil Aint Challenged edition
Camaro ZL-Won
Camaro Whoops SS
Camaro SSorry
Camaro MUST be CHALLENGED
Camaro SS 1-ENV
Camaro MZ-WIT-MLE
 
#24 ·
This argument that the Camaro started out as a poor handling car doesn't hold any water to me. Yes, that is true, but it is based off the Zeta platform that I see dates back to 2006, which was not at all expected to hit the track as hard as the Z28 has. GM engineers have been able to test, and create this awesome package out of a less than ideal chassis. And with each and every version, GM creates a car much better than the outgoing model.

With that said, creating a "new" Mustang and having to work out the bugs doesn't work for me. The suspension engineers are not starting from a clean slate, knowledge-wise, and losing everything they know. They have experience with what works on the previous car and they build upon that. This should only result in a car much better than the last, similar performance doesn't cut it in my opinion, especially if the car gets heavier. The Mustang is its own platform created only for the Mustang, you'd think by now they should have this down and done, especially after Camaro's hiatus.
 
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#27 ·
Errr, you couldn't be more wrong. Zeta from day one was desgined with 500+hp applications in mind.

This is the 2006 HSV GTS which was designed to be from from Day One - note: 2006 and it has MRC. Within six months, Walkinshaw had a warranty-supported, factory-installed supercharger option.

The issue with Camaro Zeta was - GM specced a ride and handling package to suit what it perceived American ponycar buyers wanted - straightline and looks being the primary concern. Only when Ford started throwing Track Pack Mustangs into comparos and the mags played along with the David and Goliath controversy did anyone start complaining. Note that - even then, TP 4.6 Mustangs didn't 'beat' Camaro SSs. Now, you can't find performance comparisons of a straight GT and straight SS. Both of them are wised up.

Zeta has totally adjustable caster, camber and trail settings and I think it was originally set up with too much caster or king-pin inclination plus trail. Both of which produce predictable steering and plenty of dialled-in understeer to warn the unwary; with stability on the street. Plus, the rear rollbar settings weren't optimal -fixed MY2012. Minor stuff, easy to fix.

Holden never had this issue - neither did any model of the Commodore, or for that matter G8, despite softish suspension. It was a Camaro 2010-2011 issue.




2008 HSV W427 - 512hp (ECE) LS7 engine.
 
#25 ·
I think Fords performance pack maybe aimed at something different. I wouldn't be surprised if the "performance pack" will be the standard suspension for the Euro market. Ford is focused on going global, and car that handles well on Euro B-roads and in the cobblestone city streets is priority. In a year or two it will be the standard suspension on the GT. Remember the out going GT could be optioned with the "Track Pack", I'm pretty sure it will be released soon.
 
#26 ·
When it comes to these cars, I somehow ALWAYS am on the other side of what is successful/popular. In the 80's and 90's when the Mustang was outselling the Camaro almost every year, I liked the Camaro/Firebird a lot better.

The last (current) generation where the Camaro actually was outselling the Mustang was the first time I liked the Mustang better.

Now when I read this article, by far and away my choice would be the Challenger, which is picked last here.
 
#32 ·
But will these track wins keep Camaro sales ahead of the Mustang? The reality is most people will not be on track with these cars, even buying these "track" packages, and they said the Mustang is the most livable of the three. So might people go with the Mustang for the more comfortable real world experience?

With that said - go GM! And GM - put that same magic into your lesser cars like the Cruze, Malibu, Spark, etc..
 
#34 ·
What Chevy did with the 5th gen worked. Of course, the success of the 5th gen goes beyond a single track package, but Chevy shouldn't change their formula.

Having said that, I don't think Ford should copy Chevy either. Both brands should have their own identity but Ford still has to remain competitive. The tables turned with the 5th gen Camaro. Ford is on the ropes now. They are replying to Chevy, not the other way around.

The 1LE is a true track package, whereas the GT track pack is essentially a sport package, a good one, but nothing quite as serious as the 1LE. I suspect the 6th gen Camaro will probably rival the GT track package in base form, with the 1LE being a considerable step up from that. I think the Mustang will be in trouble in terms of the 6th gen track pack comparisons.
 
#33 ·
Keep in mind that the 2010-2011 Camaro had a suspension revision for MY2012 and they even had to put two bumps in the trunk floor to accommodate relocated rear suspension parts. It is still an understeerer in Base and SS guise but 1LE, ZL1 and Z/28 take care of that, although I think the ZL1 is still not an awesome handler, because of the supercharger weight, etc.
 
#35 ·
I personally could care less about their track performance and etc. I don't like the new Stang from a styling (and size) standpoint. Its schnoz looks like Snoopy. It supposedly has something to do with the pedestrian safety regulations in Europe. Plus, Ford's Euro Kinetic design language just doesn't translate well on the Mustang. To me, it's not very American. That's the downside of taking it global.

The Camaro is bold (like an American car should be), but I hate its interior. It's also too big for a pony car. If they fix those two things with the next model, I'll be pleased.
 
#38 ·
I see the picture of these three cars lined up, and the first thing I think when I see the new yellow Mustang is - American styling has died and something Euro-Asian has taken its place.

Next up for the soft-edged, melted, fat-faced styling might be the 6th Gen Camaro. I'm sure it will sell like hotcakes though.

And that's my $0.02. ;)
 
#42 ·
The old Camaro with 1LE is a thoroughly developed car with strong race experience and development. I would guess it is faster than a 2016 Camaro SS or 1LE because of all the development the current car has benefited from.
That same development curve will occur with the 2015 Mustang, probably showing up with the GT350 and updated Track Packs. The big push for Mustang was to get the new car out the door, then further development follows, same as for the 2016 Camaro.
 
#49 ·
You're right! Just wait 'till they sort things out. Remember the older Mustang was named the "best handling solid axle car up to now" by more than one magazine. I'm pretty sure they'll get it right. But being a Camaro guy, I'm happy with the present results of the 1LE. Doesn't matter to me that in an earlier test, the Hellcat beat the ZL-1, I'd still buy the Zl-1 over the Hellcat. I can wrap a 580 HP car around a post just as easily as with a 707HP one. For me, anything over 300hp is already overkill (real fun, but still overkill on normal roads where most of the driving is done), so when the horsepower numbers are as high as they are with these cars, I want the one that is the most controllable. Now, that is what the Camaro is all about. Besides, I'm just not into Chrysler products, whatever they are! I'm pretty sure a Chrysler guy won't buy a 750HP Zl-1 if that ever comes out either, same thing for Ford people. For now, the 426HP Camaro SS 1LE's on top and I love it! Now if Chevy could just make the next Camaro a car we could SEE out of...
 
#55 ·
In reviewing the Head2Head competition again, what stands out to me is the 1LEs very rough freeway ride, while the Mustang was considered the better highway and long distance cruiser. That appeals more to me than a track-ready car that will jar loose my fillings. Such a brutal ride is for the select few, the hard-core drivers who routinely take their car to the track. What percentage of drivers actually race their cars? I would guess Not Many!
 
#56 · (Edited)
All in all I still won't buy my 13th Camaro until they get rid of the "pillbox interior" outlook. This is a Camaro I won't want to own. At 6-3" ft for me it is just not right. I've owned and driven dozen of "tuner upgraded" Camaro Z28 by my own opinion says NONE of them are as good as the new 1LE, ZL1 or even close to the new Z28....Chevy knows what they are doing.
 
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