Chinese Epica Gets New Chevy Sedan Face

[paul8488]

Oh but yeah, that nose looks pretty awful. The Epica that other markest get has a much nicer schnoze.

[derrado]

It was a dodgy review. Read the back section of Wheels mag, if you can get a hold of a copy, and see what they say about the Epica: For: "Keen pricing and generous equipment; reasonable ride/handling compromise; interior noise levels" Against: "Anonymous design inside and out; 2.5 is slow, 2.0 glacial; near-useless centre rear seat; poor resale; underneath it all, it's still a dressed-up Daewoo Tosca and totally outclassed by rivals"

The fact that the comparison didn't mention Sebring's sub-standard quality says it all, really. Oh, and the no-definite winner thing? It was a very ham-fisted attempt at a comparison test.

I stand by my remarks on the interior. It is dated-looking and plasticky. Well put-together, you say? Well, so is the Sebring. And we all know how depressing its interior it is, design aside.

Buick is a near-luxury marque, or it purports to be. Putting a car that is INFERIOR in EVERY WAY (I kid you not, every way) compared to the '08 Malibu, G6 and Aura would be a sure-fire way to erode Buick's fledgling credibility.

For the undemanding consumer, the Epica might make a passable budget entry. The Suzuki Verona probably got a few satisfied customers. But as Wheels said, it is hopelessly outclassed. Don't let the sloppy review delude you. It has its merits but it is not worthy of the Buick nameplate. It's an old Daewoo.

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by derrado

It was a dodgy review. Read the back section of Wheels mag, if you can get a hold of a copy, and see what they say about the Epica: For: "Keen pricing and generous equipment; reasonable ride/handling compromise; interior noise levels" Against: "Anonymous design inside and out; 2.5 is slow, 2.0 glacial; near-useless centre rear seat; poor resale; underneath it all, it's still a dressed-up Daewoo Tosca and totally outclassed by rivals"

The fact that the comparison didn't mention Sebring's sub-standard quality says it all, really. Oh, and the no-definite winner thing? It was a very ham-fisted attempt at a comparison test.

I stand by my remarks on the interior. It is dated-looking and plasticky. Well put-together, you say? Well, so is the Sebring. And we all know how depressing its interior it is, design aside.

Buick is a near-luxury marque, or it purports to be. Putting a car that is INFERIOR in EVERY WAY (I kid you not, every way) compared to the '08 Malibu, G6 and Aura would be a sure-fire way to erode Buick's fledgling credibility.

For the undemanding consumer, the Epica might make a passable budget entry. The Suzuki Verona probably got a few satisfied customers. But as Wheels said, it is hopelessly outclassed. Don't let the sloppy review delude you. It has its merits but it is not worthy of the Buick nameplate. It's an old Daewoo.

Hey, you could be right. I certainly don't think it's any better than the Aura or Malibu. Not so sure about the G6... especially on the inside.

Still, I come back to the fact that Buick has to try and survive on its luxury crossover sales for another year and a half or two years... I don't see that working out all that well. Lucerne and Lacrosse sales are down close to 25% combined since least year, which was already a bad year for Buick.

If they could hit the market tomorrow with the EpsilonII Lacrosse I'd say leave the Epica where it is... but I think it'd make a very nice Buick for the time being. It is smooth and quiet and calm according to all reviews, and heck, the Epica (and old Daewoo) even has a 5-speed auto trans, which is more than we can say for the Lacrosse (which is an even older Grand Prix).

[derrado]

It makes no sense to replace a sub-par car (LaCrosse) with a sub-par car (Epica). Neither is wholly competitive and it's just an awkward manoeuvre. I don't see sales increasing either, not enough to justify the cost of making it US-compatible, and the styling is just not in line at all with the Buick range.

The LaCrosse is no worse than the Epica. Leave it in for the year or so it'll take for the new LaCrosse to come. With a new LaCrosse in development, it's not as though Buick will be suddenly shelved. If they wanted to kill the marque, they would've done it a long time ago.

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by derrado

It makes no sense to replace a sub-par car (LaCrosse) with a sub-par car (Epica). Neither is wholly competitive and it's just an awkward manoeuvre. I don't see sales increasing either, not enough to justify the cost of making it US-compatible, and the styling is just not in line at all with the Buick range.

The LaCrosse is no worse than the Epica. Leave it in for the year or so it'll take for the new LaCrosse to come. With a new LaCrosse in development, it's not as though Buick will be suddenly shelved. If they wanted to kill the marque, they would've done it a long time ago.

You have more faith and patience than me! January through September 2006 Buick was at 191,040... this year they're at 143,915 (-24.7%). The gap is going to widen with Lacrosse tracking down 33% and Lucerne down 17% for the year. Enclave is still climbing, but it simply can't make up for the drop in Buick sedan sales... it already has to replace the Terazza, Rainier and Rendezvous.

I think you're making the Epica out to be worse than it is. It might not be the best car out there, but you dismiss it by calling it an 'old Daewoo'. If it's truly nothing more than that, fine... but someone could just as easily say that the new Malibu is nothing more than an 'old G6'.

The fact that the car isn't ready for the American market is a very valid point though, and certification for a low-volume (like 3000 to 5000) run really doesn't make sense. Still, I honestly don't think it's such a horrible car!

[derrado]

GM is consolidating Buick, Pontiac and GMC. With the ensuing line-up reductions, sales are bound to decline. It's an inevitability.

I said it was sub-par, but that it had its merits. It's time has passed, though, and in a world of Mondeos, Mazda6s and to a lesser extent, Camrys, it is time it was put out to pasture, and in a few years it will be replaced by a proper, Australian/Korean GM-DAT product. Near enough is NOT good enough.

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by derrado

GM is consolidating Buick, Pontiac and GMC. With the ensuing line-up reductions, sales are bound to decline. It's an inevitability.

Ah, but sales are falling on the cars they still have... not because they've been chopping models (at least on the sedan side). If you compare Buick 5 years ago (when they had 4 sedans) with Buick now (with 2 sedans) I can understand a decline... but we're talking -33% and -17% for the same models that existed last year. That's not consolidation... that's uncompetitive product that no one wants to buy.

This whole dealer-consolidation thing makes sense to me... but they're already using it as an excuse for falling Pontiac and Buick sales, when they haven't actually trimmed amy models yet to better fit the brand together.

Okay, I'll back off... you're allowed to not love the Epica! Maybe it's because I have a soft spot for Daewoos... which indicates a low standard for liking a vehicle... but I would be very happy with an Epica.

Oh, and I also like the current Buick sedans... I'm not saying that they're garbage... it's just that they're clearly not what most consumers want in a luxury sedan.

[eaton53]

Yuk.

[Frankster177]

It needs Simcoe to restyle the front.
And some more grunt.


And Roberts your fathers brother

[Butz]

It's been around for a while, I don't think I like it much

[CADILLACSIXTEEN]

SATURN CALLED, THEY WANT THEIR L-SERIES BACK

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by paul8488

Still thinking about this... I'm certain the Epica would be a much better match for the Milan than the Lacrosse. I wonder if there's any way for GM to squeeze a bit more power from the inline 6...

How about dropping the very ordinary 2.0 and adding variable valve timing and DI to get the torque where it needs to be?

I can see what you are saying about its interior (which I quite like) and the handling is far better than the Sebring (of which the interior made me squeamish). The engine just needs a serious case of steroids. I'm not being power hungry. It is just way below class (not referring to the Sebring which is equally crap).

[DuSpinnst]

Damn the photo hosting site is blocked here at work....

[spaz]

the epica would be just as competitive in the current US midsize sedan market as a 1985 buick century

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by mikmak

I can see what you are saying about its interior (which I quite like) and the handling is far better than the Sebring (of which the interior made me squeamish). The engine just needs a serious case of steroids. I'm not being power hungry. It is just way below class (not referring to the Sebring which is equally crap).

This is coming from a man who's driven it... it needs more power, but it handles better than a Sebring and has a nicer interior. Guess that means the Sebring is worse than a 1985 Century. Scary.