Chevy Volt: The Engineering Challenges of Generator Mode

[impala02]

Originally Posted by goblue

Here's JOHN's latest attempt at trying to discredit the VOLT

http://priuschat.com/forums/chevrole...tml#post934494

EVIL GM strikes again....

>>>>>

I've driven the Gen II Prius, the shudder was a little annoying. I agree with others, what was far more annoying was the power and handling.

Something to remember, when a Toyota fan (like JOHN and others) drive a Toyota, those minor annoyances are viewed as compromises, they aren't mistakes - if Toyota couldn't do better - than it couldn't be done better - or there was a good reason.

When GM doesn't do it perfect, its because of a big union and crappy engineers.

I for one am glad GM is sweating the details like this. The all out assault is exactly what GM needs.

Funny, I've been over at Priuschat the past few days and I was shocked at how many of the people over there either want the Volt to be a failure, don't believe the Volt will be ever be produced, want GM to die, or feel that the Volt's technology is nowhere as sophisticated as Toyota's Hybrid Synergry Drive. You would think that someone who drives a Prius would want the envelope to be pushed, regardless of what company it is that does it. I thought these people would be more concerned about the environment and reducing our dependence on foreign oil, but it is obviously clear that for the most part, they are just anti-domestic, arrogant, Toyotaphiles.

[jtrav91]

Originally Posted by Dr. Show-Me

I guess I am curious why GM haters, Toyota lovers and other miscreants frequent a GM fan site.

Why is pushing GM to a deliver a no-plug hybrid like Prius in addition to Volt and hybrid trucks considered hate?

[goblue]

Originally Posted by jtrav91

Why is pushing GM to a deliver a no-plug hybrid like Prius in addition to Volt and hybrid trucks considered hate?

GM just doesn't see the point. A Prius just doesn't save enough gas to be relevant as a long term solution. there are plenty of small cars that do well at the pump. Going from 30 to 50? Is that worth a NIMH pack, second powertrain, and all the compromises? Going from 30 to 300? Now we've got something that justifies lugging around a battery and a generator.

The VOLT, on average will use about 20% of the gas a Prius does, or about 12-15% of the gas a Civic does. Therein lies the problem, the Prius certainly saves gas, but nowhere near enough to do anything meaningful. VOLT can reduce your fuel usage by a factor of 5 or even 10. With a Prius, you're doing extremely well if you can cut fuel usage by a factor of 2. Usually its 1.5 - and relative to a comprable vehicle, it can be even less.

VOLTEC is the first no compromise powertrain that can actually make a difference.

So, why have the 2 mode? Because it will be a long time before batteries drop enough in price to make a VOLTEC SUV possible - especially one with any capability.

[AMERICA 123]

Outstanding post.

--------------------------

OFF TOPIC - slightly

blkwrxsti, I just wanted to say I've really enjoyed your posts here there and everywhere about the VOLT - before you got bogged down with the 'isn't- it- ridiculous- their- still- here- toyota- sycophants' we just picked up recently.

Also have enjoyed how you handle all that as well but in a different way.

The only thing there is then I miss you not posting the other stuff !

Great food for thought provided by you and many of the interactions after in those other posts.

Maybe if we all just ignore them they'll circle **** themselves to death and leave ????

[jtrav91]

Originally Posted by goblue

Here's JOHN's latest attempt at trying to discredit the VOLT

There is a spreadsheet that shows how numbers are calculated. It lets you adjust them too. How is that an attempt to discredit? It shows how the 230 MPG was achieved. Doesn't that support GM claims?

[blkwrxsti]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Outstanding post.

--------------------------

OFF TOPIC - slightly

blkwrxsti, I just wanted to say I've really enjoyed your posts here there and everywhere about the VOLT - before you got bogged down with the 'isn't- it- ridiculous- their- still- here- toyota- sycophants' we just picked up recently.

Also have enjoyed how you handle all that as well but in a different way.

The only thing there is then I miss you not posting the other stuff !

Great food for thought provided by you and many of the interactions after in those other posts.

Maybe if we all just ignore them they'll circle **** themselves to death and leave ????

Thanks for the vote America123 - I don't want the sycophants to leave - it warms my heart to see how much volt discussion there is on the priuschat site. As I've said before - GMI is a great place to find out what the other camp is thinking (whether that's Ford or Toyota or Nissan, or even poor forgotten Honda). I can understand why people from other auto sites come here - the other sites seem to be full of "wisdom" that's universally accepted and never questioned. Also full of advice about how you can change your habits to suit your car better...

I miss posting here on other stuff too - there's just not a whole lot of new info out there. First we went through always discussing the bankruptcy and how every other company was being better managed than GM, now it seems to be all about the upcoming Volt, even while dealerships sell out their inventories and Equinox plant is getting another shift. I'd rather talk about upcoming products, but maybe GM is finally promoting with the volt and keeping the rest of the product lineup to themselves?

I'll go even farther off topic than you - remember when there was talk about a 3-valve vette motor with DoD that would return 40 mpg highway? I really hope they revisit that type of thing (maybe not as a Vette).

[jtrav91]

Originally Posted by blkwrxsti

I can understand why people from other auto sites come here

To see what (if anything) has changed since the bankruptcy.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by blkwrxsti

Thanks for the vote America123 - I don't want the sycophants to leave - it warms my heart to see how much volt discussion there is on the priuschat site. As I've said before - GMI is a great place to find out what the other camp is thinking (whether that's Ford or Toyota or Nissan, or even poor forgotten Honda). I can understand why people from other auto sites come here - the other sites seem to be full of "wisdom" that's universally accepted and never questioned. Also full of advice about how you can change your habits to suit your car better...

I miss posting here on other stuff too - there's just not a whole lot of new info out there. First we went through always discussing the bankruptcy and how every other company was being better managed than GM, now it seems to be all about the upcoming Volt, even while dealerships sell out their inventories and Equinox plant is getting another shift. I'd rather talk about upcoming products, but maybe GM is finally promoting with the volt and keeping the rest of the product lineup to themselves?

I'll go even farther off topic than you - remember when there was talk about a 3-valve vette motor with DoD that would return 40 mpg highway? I really hope they revisit that type of thing (maybe not as a Vette).

Another insightful post - think I know what you mean - couldn't agree more - on all of it.

And yes, what did happen to that last one - have to add it to my 'where are they now list' - that keeps growing.

[hawaiitahoe]

I'd like to share a moment with all the great insightful information on this thread posted by many a good member.

I just slapped on my level 10 omgflowers repellent suit and equipped my superb-quality toyotphilebat and ventured into johns website!

I wont lie to you, my original intent was to find a picture of john himself, and man i should be careful what i wish for....but tooooo late.

John im going to be honest with you, your site has plenty of information and personal insight about your prius, your life background, and how the technology works.

I will also state that this isnt a personal attack, this is my personal opinion of your website, and i am here to share it; if you'd rather not or would not want to read it, stop reading at the end of this sentence.
I believe i am stereotyping you in the process, but hey bro! dont take is seriously!

1. Your site is a mere gimmick of a myspace/facebook site, the only major thing different is that it is more neatly laid out and you have info. in the form of charts, etc. You are idolizing the prius much like a 6 year old idolizes her barbie dream house w/ken doll.

2. I couldnt help but sense a slight "femme" aura from your site.

3. Now im really starting to wonder if you're a environmental fanatic.

4. I skimmed through your personal information, as it has no interest to me...so you were a computer tech or something, well i guess you and my friend share the same thing, both are into computer tech and both just LOOOVEEEE toyota.

5. Your pictures, Scenery is great, but flowers? Also the whole star trek paragraph reference? ....cool?

6.Your site is a prius altar of worship, keep up the good work!


BACK ON TOPIC


Volt is the one vehicle GM cannot screw up, even moreso than the camaro. What i mean is getting all the kinks out, stabilizing, and most efficiently tuning the computer and engine components. In essence, the volt should be getting a "caddilac-like" treatment where it showcases "the best GM can do", "superb quality", only it will debut as a chevrolet.

[jtrav91]

Originally Posted by hawaiitahoe

You are idolizing the prius much like a 6 year old idolizes her barbie dream house w/ken doll.

The best movie directors & producers in the world are those who retain the eye of a child and are able to express what they see on film to share with others.

Originally Posted by hawaiitahoe

Volt is the one vehicle GM cannot screw up, even moreso than the camaro. What i mean is getting all the kinks out, stabilizing, and most efficiently tuning the computer and engine components. In essence, the volt should be getting a "caddilac-like" treatment where it showcases "the best GM can do", "superb quality", only it will debut as a chevrolet.

How will that be measured? The expectations established so far is a 40 mile range and 230 mpg. What performance criteria should we look for? You know how the media will jump to conclusions right away picking on whatever they think will draw attention.

[joey]

In typical GM wonder, I'm afraid to ask if that 1.4L has a cast iron block? Not to mention doesn't 1.4L to drive a generator seem like a poor power to watt output ration?

Maybe throw out the 1.4 and put in a Honda generator. One of those puppies can throw out over 1200W at under 500CC's right?

[Dr. Show-Me]

I'd bet the 1.4 is in the Volt because the powerplant is already developed for the Cruze, meaning minimal additional development was needed.
Are there better generators? I would hope GM would be looking at this, even if the motor doesn't run much.
Lotus is said to have developed a very fuel efficient generator, according to autoblog.

[staspeterson]

Originally Posted by joey

In typical GM wonder, I'm afraid to ask if that 1.4L has a cast iron block? Not to mention doesn't 1.4L to drive a generator seem like a poor power to watt output ration?

Maybe throw out the 1.4 and put in a Honda generator. One of those puppies can throw out over 1200W at under 500CC's right?

Isn' that wonderful. So what?

The Volt generator needs to output 53Kw. Your little Honda generator outputs 12 KW. It four+ times too small! Four times 500 cc get us a 1600 cc or 1.6 liters for a generator motor. GM's 1.4 actually seems to be better...

That's why you need to learn how to count and cipher as well as emote.

[staspeterson]

Originally Posted by Dr. Show-Me

I'd bet the 1.4 is in the Volt because the powerplant is already developed for the Cruze, meaning minimal additional development was needed.
Are there better generators? I would hope GM would be looking at this, even if the motor doesn't run much.
Lotus is said to have developed a very fuel efficient generator, according to autoblog.

So sell them to Tesla-Lotus. Since they can't make anything else including a reduction gear, "transmission", the Tesla folks wil love it for their Tesla-Roadster, too.