Chevy Europe looks to double range

[TKR]

Originally Posted by lio45

I stand by what I said.

There's a "GM Daewoo, GM China & International News" section. It belongs there.

If you absolutely don't want to put it the Daewoo News section, at least put it in the Opel News section (which is also supposed to include GM European Industry News).

I know that Daewoo is GM. Do you know that this forum is subdivised in sections? Because actually, pretty much everything discussed here is GM... that's why there are subforums.

Because the Camaro and Volt have zero to do with GM Daewoo, thats why.
Also, the other vehicles in the range will more or less be the same as their NA counterparts, ie Epica will be the same as Malibu (hopefully retain the Malibu name) and Coblat / Optra will become as one, among others.
The new vehicles will be badged as Chevy's around most of the planet so maybe we can drop the 'us and them' attitude and now treat Chev (and GM) as the global company it is actually becoming.

[AbsoluteSaab]

Before I start just want to backup TKR. Chevrolet is now a Global brand and I think all future posts regarding Chevy specific products should be posted here.

Right.....

When you compare the Captiva to the Antara you can see that the chevy just has cheaper matierials. Not tacky like hard plastics found in Japanese products but not the same quality as OPEL. The suspension is also different, so together tis gives the Chevy a price advantage.
Re-Badge is not quite the right term more like retro-engineering. Re-badge is Saturn Vue / OPEL Antara. Identical looking cars with the same components and sheet metal, just different badge.

The HHR is already offered in Europe but not in UK as it’s a LHD vehicle only.

The 3 brands in Europe should overlap each other. It means with all dealers offering Chevrolet,OPEL and Saab. Customers can choose between a top of the range Chevy or an entry level OPEL and an entry level Saab will overlap with a top of the range OPEL. They won’t cannibalise, instead will offer a fluid ‘Step-up’ pricing structure.
However I can see a problem. It Is official that since 1997 and the introduction of the new Passat, VW entered the premium segment as Audi had already made tracks in the luxury car sector. Skoda and Seat play it out where VW used to be. OPEL is now following VW with the Insignia and just by looking at pictures we can see it has a premium feel about it. However, OPEL just doest have a premium image but then again VW didn’t either 10 years ago but that didn’t stop the launch of the phaeton. The car did not sell in large numbers but it opened the door and triggered a change in consumer perception. Give OPEL a decade and I think they will be seen as a premium brand and Chevy can easily fill the shoes of where OPEL once were. The big question is where does Saab fit? GM has said that Saab is a BMW and Audi competitor but currently Saab is just about a match for VW and that’s pushing it. Saab heritage has never been in the premium sector and despite how much I love the brand, Saab will never been seen as a luxury marque. Which brings Cadillac into play but they will never produce the volume in Europe. So will we see Caddy and Saab complement each other in future European markets? With Saab chasing Audi and Cadillac gunning for BMW and Mercedes.

What ever happens GM seems to be on the right track with Chevy and since the name change in Europe the products have done so much better. The Camaro will add fire to the brand along with the new exciting designs across the range. The future looks right for Chevrolet right now and will attract a lot of young buyers.

[charts.1]

Originally Posted by AbsoluteSaab

Before I start just want to backup TKR. Chevrolet is now a Global brand and I think all future posts regarding Chevy specific products should be posted here.

Right.....

When you compare the Captiva to the Antara you can see that the chevy just has cheaper matierials. Not tacky like hard plastics found in Japanese products but not the same quality as OPEL. The suspension is also different, so together tis gives the Chevy a price advantage.
Re-Badge is not quite the right term more like retro-engineering. Re-badge is Saturn Vue / OPEL Antara. Identical looking cars with the same components and sheet metal, just different badge.

The HHR is already offered in Europe but not in UK as it’s a LHD vehicle only.

The 3 brands in Europe should overlap each other. It means with all dealers offering Chevrolet,OPEL and Saab. Customers can choose between a top of the range Chevy or an entry level OPEL and an entry level Saab will overlap with a top of the range OPEL. They won’t cannibalise, instead will offer a fluid ‘Step-up’ pricing structure.
However I can see a problem. It Is official that since 1997 and the introduction of the new Passat, VW entered the premium segment as Audi had already made tracks in the luxury car sector. Skoda and Seat play it out where VW used to be. OPEL is now following VW with the Insignia and just by looking at pictures we can see it has a premium feel about it. However, OPEL just doest have a premium image but then again VW didn’t either 10 years ago but that didn’t stop the launch of the phaeton. The car did not sell in large numbers but it opened the door and triggered a change in consumer perception. Give OPEL a decade and I think they will be seen as a premium brand and Chevy can easily fill the shoes of where OPEL once were. The big question is where does Saab fit? GM has said that Saab is a BMW and Audi competitor but currently Saab is just about a match for VW and that’s pushing it. Saab heritage has never been in the premium sector and despite how much I love the brand, Saab will never been seen as a luxury marque. Which brings Cadillac into play but they will never produce the volume in Europe. So will we see Caddy and Saab complement each other in future European markets? With Saab chasing Audi and Cadillac gunning for BMW and Mercedes.


What ever happens GM seems to be on the right track with Chevy and since the name change in Europe the products have done so much better. The Camaro will add fire to the brand along with the new exciting designs across the range. The future looks right for Chevrolet right now and will attract a lot of young buyers.

GM (chevy) has done extrememly well the last few years setting up their operations over seas as a world wide company. Their european, middle east and south american operations have turned in healthy profits for the company and future sales look very promising. On the other hand USA operations continue to struggle. Erosion of sales caused by stiff competition, high labour costs and strikes that continue to undermind their chance for future success in the USA market. 19,000 more GM employees will soon hit the retirement life because of cutbacks in the USA bringing operation employment down to under 100,000. 30 years ago GM had over 350,000 workers in the USA. Its just a matter of time, before one of the big three USA operations bites the dust like so many auto manufactureres before them, and one other will probably get gobbled up by Toyota who continues to make positive inroads in america. One model like the Malibu or Camaro will not have much impact on the company overall in the USA market for survival. Continued high labour costs, and strikes will be the nails that close GM operations in the USA within the next 10-15 years. As we all know many Chevrolet products sold in the USA come from other countries now. Impala from Canada (GMs top selling car) and Aveo from middle east not counting others from Mexico. Eventually I believe GM america will be a parts source only company with continued sales operations but without USA workers making their products. As worldwide GM operations continue to flourish with new markets still to be tapped into, the USA market will continue to a hinderance. Too bad for a company that was the largest operations in the world at one time is a mere shadow of itself now because USA operations where the company started continues to lose sales to the competition.

[AG3]

Does this mean they'll also expand their lineup in Asia? (Like Chevrolet Europe, majority of the Asian Chevrolet range is made up of GMDAT models)

Originally Posted by t-rex

The Daewoo platforms will be gone in a few years.

The M150 Spark/Matiz is moving to the Agila/Splash small platform by 2010.

I always thought the next Spark/Matiz (Beat) was going to move to a new GM-GMDAT-developed platform.
Isn't the Agila/Splash built on a Suzuki developed platform? (shortened Swift platform)
Makes you wonder why they had to use this test mule...


...when they could have easily used this and not attract any attention at all. (assuming the information is correct that they will share the same platform)

The V250 Epica and next-gen Malibu are scheduled to merge in 2012.

So the aging Epica will stick around for another 4 years?

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Since platforms going forward are global there isn't going to be anymore Daewoo platforms (like there is now at least).

Different cars will have different "hosts." European Chevy will have Opel, Daewoo, and NA platforms. I don't know why this is hard to understand.

It's hard to understand because your e-mail says that:

(1) There aren't going to be anymore Daewoo platforms; and

(2) European Chevy will have Daewoo platforms.

[AG3]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

It's hard to understand because your e-mail says that:

(1) There aren't going to be anymore Daewoo platforms; and

(2) European Chevy will have Daewoo platforms.

As far as I know, all the current Daewoo platforms will be replaced by Global GM platforms.
Based on some older reports, GMDAT will head the development of GM's next generation small car platform. (Gamma II?)

The Captiva is one of the first GMDAT models to be built on a global GM platform (GM Theta), the upcoming Nubira(Cobalt/Optra/Lacetti replacement) will be the next (GM Delta II).

[AbsoluteSaab]

AG3 - I thought the Epica has only recently been released which uses the same platform as the 08 Malibu on an extended version of the old Epsilon platfrom first released in 2001.
Will the Malibu not be around for the next 4 year also.. So that would make it aging too along with the Saturn Aura?

HosierRon - I think DuSpinnst is trying to point out that differentiating GM's global platforms by GM Operational units is effectively defunct. GM-DAT is responsible for the Gamma and Theta architecture at present, GME has Delta and Epsilon, GMNA has KAPPA, ALPHA and TE. But that doesn't mean the Equinox or Vue should be called a Daewoo derived vehicle.

[AG3]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

If Chevrolet is going to be in 65% of the European market, am I the only one wondering GM is going to keep Chevrolet from overlapping with Opel from overlapping with Saab from overlapping with the "B" Cadillacs?

After GMDAT makes the switch to global GM platforms, I'm guessing that most Opel models will end up with a more affordable GMDAT Chevy equivalent.

I guess its like VW/Seat/Skoda.
*I didn't include Audi, because VW plans to give them their own platforms like the Audi MLP((Modular Longitudinal Platform) used by the new A4, A5 and Q5 for example.

[AG3]

Originally Posted by AbsoluteSaab

AG3 - I thought the Epica has only recently been released which uses the same platform as the 08 Malibu on an extended version of the old Epsilon platfrom first released in 2001.

The current V250 Chevy Epica/ Daewoo Tosca is an updated/reskinned version of the previous generation V200 Chevy Epica/ Daewoo Magnus which was released in 2000.

PS: I read that the previous gen V200 Epica is a development of the 1990's V100 Daewoo Leganza.
I guess that makes the current Epica's platform over a decade old.

[Bravada]

The V250 Tosca has been released in 2006, and given the usual 6-year model cycle used by Western manufacturers (Honda has a 4-year cycle), it won't be too long in the tooth when it meets its demise. It is certainly getting a lot more crap around here than it deserves - it is a very competent vehicle, and the platform (indeed Daewoo's V-platform as seen in the V200 Magnus and in a shorter version in the V100 Leganza) is very competent.

Previous models have reviewed pretty well for driving experience, but lacked in utility and interior refinement. The old GM engines also didn't score too well for their crudeness - it is not enough to motivate the car, NVH also matters in this class. The V250 improves on all of that markedly, with the Porsche inline six shining as a highlight (in operation rather than specs, but I'd rather have the former than the latter). It is also a very good-looking car in person - and at least some photos. With the rather so-so Sonata and forgettable Lotze/Magentis/Optima I really do not see why GM should be ashamed of the V250 (though they seem to be, given the lack of marketing support).

ANYHOO, the current Malibu uses a variation of Epsilon seen first in the 2004 Chevrolet Malibu Maxx. The very first Epsilon Opel Vectra debuted in 2002, and the platform, FWIK, is a development of the previous GM2900/2902, seen in Opel Vectras since 1993. It is not something bad, actually. Japanese manufacturers do not make too much fuss about it, but they actually try to continue (and develop) their platforms as long as they can, so there is still quite a bit of the 1997 Camry in the 2008 Camry.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by AbsoluteSaab

Before I start just want to backup TKR. Chevrolet is now a Global brand and I think all future posts regarding Chevy specific products should be posted here.

Then the owners of this site need to reorganize their subsections.

Let's say you want to post an article on a Buick from China. Do you post it in Buick News, or in GM China News?

"Buick News"
All The Latest On Buick From the U.S. to China

"GM Daewoo, GM China & International News"
The Latest GM Daewoo & GM China News, Plus Asian, African & South American Industry News

Sort the news either by brand or by the GM unit that's making the vehicle, but please make up your mind.

[Bravada]

Just a thought - Do you think (if priced right) there would be any interest in the Impala in Europe (Eastern Europe/Russia in particular) or is it just too big?

As concerns Eastern Europe - too big (cars of this size basically only sell in the premium market), but the main concern is engine size and fuel consumption. Excise taxes and such are often displacement-based in Europe, and fuel consumption, while quite OK for a car of Impala's size, is still quite a bit. Last but not least, the Impaler costs around what a Passat does in the US - and nothing indicates it would not in Europe. I don't think many people who could afford a car that large (i.e. as a Passat), expensive and such would bother to upsize to Impala for merely a bump in overall size and downgrade in refinement.

Russia, however, is a different story. There is a market for "big but cheap" there, Toyota even builds the Camry in St. Petersburg for local consumption (which doesn't even see a single European market), so I think the Impala MIGHT stand a chance there. Still, it is much bigger than the Camry and not quite as modern...

PS. Base Camries are 2.4 I4s in Russia, with only the top version getting the 3.5 V6.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by Bravada

Russia, however, is a different story. There is a market for "big but cheap" there, Toyota even builds the Camry in St. Petersburg for local consumption (which doesn't even see a single European market), so I think the Impala MIGHT stand a chance there. Still, it is much bigger than the Camry and not quite as modern...

PS. Base Camries are 2.4 I4s in Russia, with only the top version getting the 3.5 V6.

Thanks for the enlightening response, the Impala would not be a good choice for Eastern Europe but as you point out Russia maybe different.

Since GM sells the LaCrosse in China with 2.4L and 3.0L V6 power the Impala could offer the 2.4L on base models and 3.0L or 3.5L on top level models as best fits local tastes/engine size rules and even offer a BAS hybrid similar to the Chinese LaCrosse to be introduced soon.

I think this may work for GM in Russia and establish the Chevrolet brand as one offering good value across a wide range of vehicle sizes.

[Bravada]

Now that I think about the GAZ Sebring I actually think moving W-body production to Russia once it finally expires in Oshawa might make some sense. Chevrolet's Russian bestseller is already the Lanos, so perhaps this might be what it takes to fend off the Russian/Chinese threat in this, all in all, large market.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by Bravada

Now that I think about the GAZ Sebring I actually think moving W-body production to Russia once it finally expires in Oshawa might make some sense. Chevrolet's Russian bestseller is already the Lanos, so perhaps this might be what it takes to fend off the Russian/Chinese threat in this, all in all, large market.

Excellent idea!