Camaro Sales and Production Analysis (Camaro-Mustang sales gap growing)

[ksr]

Obviously, the very existence of a Camaro is going to hurt Mustang. And I think the market for these cars is relatively limited. Not sure there's enough buyers for Camaro/Mustang/Challenger all to survive.

But even so, Ford has got to be at least somewhat disappointed in the new-for-2010 Mustang's sales performance.

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by sonjaab

I don't know about where you guys live but here in the Central NY
area (Syracuse) there are almost 100 new Camaros gathering dust
at the local dealers ! Also MANY Challengers have grass and tumbleweeds growing in the cracks in the pavement beneath them at the local dealers along with the Mustangs too.

Not to mention the SS Camaros are still going begging to be bought with a nice fat ADM sticker over MSRP while Challengers and Mustangs can be bought well under sticker!
Those dealers better move that metal quick between another brutal CNY winter is almost upon us as well as a CRUMMY local economy and gloomy job outlook.

That's very strange, because that is not the norm.

I was out West a couple weeks ago and a lot of the dealerships didn't have any Camaros yet. The one big dealership (largest in its metro area) had ONLY two Camaros and they were "effectively" for show only. If you talk to the dealers there, they'll tell you that they won't be able to get them on the lot until 2010.

I have a hard time believing that those NY area dealerships have that many Camaros.

Demand still outpacing production. There is NO EXCESS production.

If you consider:
1) Lag time between production and delivery
2) 1000's of dealerships wanting showroom car in the US, Mexico, Canada, and other global regions
3) Globals sales, which aren't included in these NA sales numbers

...you'll find that every Camaro produced can be accounted for.

[fred96ws6]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Chevy needs to put base LSs and base SSs on their lots. Al the add-ons make the car too expensive. You could get a BMW.

I know what you mean. Most of the SS I've looked at are $45K+. I just can't justify paying that for a Camaro when I was able to buy my 08 C6 Z51 3LT brand new for $46K.

[Speedjerk]

Originally Posted by bone

Ford really screwed up the 2010 exterior refresh of the Mustang. The Camaro looks scream, "look at me", the Mustangs don't. I can't imagine how much better the Camaro would sell if it was 300 to 400 pounds lighter and had a more subtle interior.

So true. I know many in my neck of the woods who will not buy one for this reason. It is a MAJOR turn off. I hear it from colleges and read it all over the net. I'm not just talking a 200 lbs drop in weight either. It would need to be the weight of the gen 4 before many would move on it. If they could get it down to the weight of the FOX Body GTs (and fix some of the quality issue), I would bet they would double their sales.

I would venture to say 20% of 370Z sales, Mustang GT sales and Genesis sales are solely because Camaro is too heavy.

There is a reason why the Sport Compact Car scene is so popular. It's not because many of these enthusiasts can't afford more car. It's because many of them have learned that "less" really is more.

It's too bad the bean counters at GM forced the architecture for this car. It is entirely the wrong one for its purpose. But...I guess it was "no Camaro or heavy Camaro". You take your pick.

[ksr]

Originally Posted by Speedjerk

So true. I know many in my neck of the woods who will not buy one for this reason. It is a MAJOR turn off. I hear it from colleges and read it all over the net. I'm not just talking a 200 lbs drop in weight either. It would need to be the weight of the gen 4 before many would move on it. If they could get it down to the weight of the FOX Body GTs (and fix some of the quality issue), I would bet they would double their sales.

It could be lighter, but they aren't hurting for sales. But, who knows how long that will last.

3rd and 4th gens were lighter but were still comparitively heavy, and if you're looking for a car that's like a little sport-compact Mazda 3, look elsewhere. And, if the Camaro were that light, it wouldn't be a Camaro. You'd lose the people that do love it.

What quality issues?

[tripowergto]

GM should make a Heavy Chevy edition Camaro. Still waiting on the convertible but good to see an actual sales success from the old GM.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

That's very strange, because that is not the norm.

I was out West a couple weeks ago and a lot of the dealerships didn't have any Camaros yet. The one big dealership (largest in its metro area) had ONLY two Camaros and they were "effectively" for show only. If you talk to the dealers there, they'll tell you that they won't be able to get them on the lot until 2010.

I have a hard time believing that those NY area dealerships have that many Camaros.

Demand still outpacing production. There is NO EXCESS production.

If you consider:
1) Lag time between production and delivery
2) 1000's of dealerships wanting showroom car in the US, Mexico, Canada, and other global regions
3) Globals sales, which aren't included in these NA sales numbers

...you'll find that every Camaro produced can be accounted for.

Agreed. I'm fairly sure he's grossly over exaggerating when he says there are a hundred Camaros on a dealer lot. Even if a dealer has excess stock, there are thousands of other dealers who would've traded or bought from them.

The most I've ever seen on a dealer lot at one time is four Camaros. All spoken for.

[BigThreeForever]

Originally Posted by TriShield

GM took one of their storied names and did it proud, true to it's heritage and brought into the 21st century. And it's paying off.

Why can't they do this with all the other cars they make? I want to see more names GM brands are known for restored with the styling that they were known for.

Yes! Yes! And again . . .YES!

I am in 100% agreement with every word, Sir. Just imagine the possibilities . . .

[hunchman]

Originally Posted by sonjaab

I don't know about where you guys live but here in the Central NY
area (Syracuse) there are almost 100 new Camaros gathering dust
at the local dealers ! Also MANY Challengers have grass and tumbleweeds growing in the cracks in the pavement beneath them at the local dealers along with the Mustangs too.

Not to mention the SS Camaros are still going begging to be bought with a nice fat ADM sticker over MSRP while Challengers and Mustangs can be bought well under sticker!
Those dealers better move that metal quick between another brutal CNY winter is almost upon us as well as a CRUMMY local economy and gloomy job outlook.

Put a picture up.I'll bet your life that you can't. Jerk.

[Speedjerk]

Originally Posted by Danko

Challenger's problem? PRICE! A six speed manual 425 h.p. Chal costs about $12000 more than a six speed manual 426 h.p. Camaro. duh? check it out.

Yup, if Chrysler would have set the price at:

SE $19,995
R/T $26,995
SRT $34,995

Part of the esteem/prestige that comes with buying this car is the price one pays for it. Nevertheless, they would fare better with competitive pricing. I don't know what it cost them to sell each model, but I do know there is some profit in those above numbers. People would see the sales many expected. These cars need to run on a very narrow margin. By that I do not mean skimp on quality, but be more of a cost leader for the brand.

The other option is to offer more for the money. Maybe sell the SRT as the new R/T package and make a supercharged or HO N/A motor to compete with the Z28 and GT500. If they could make it handle and brake better they could continue to sell an SRT at its current price point. They just can't be too arrogant.

[ksr]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Agreed. I'm fairly sure he's grossly over exaggerating when he says there are a hundred Camaros on a dealer lot. Even if a dealer has excess stock, there are thousands of other dealers who would've traded or bought from them.

The most I've ever seen on a dealer lot at one time is four Camaros. All spoken for.

I don't believe that for a second. A hundred Camaros?

They can't keep them in stock around here. And how did they get allocated all of these Camaros when other dealers can't get them.

This is an exaggeration.

If they exist, all those dealers would have to do is advertise on the web. Buyers who have been waiting all over the country would head to NY.

[ericmvest]

Originally Posted by davidlane

GM has what, approximately three dozen name plates and one that's working. There's a game plan that'll make you profitable.

This seems like an overly critical statement. It seems that General Motors has many more than "one" car and truck line that is "working."

[69Firebird400]

Originally Posted by Olds88

You are missing a very critical component of these cars: Sound. A badass Camaro should not sound like a ricey G37. But that's just my opinion. I'd rather a 5.3L V8 to the SIDI motor, it sounds MUCH better, its more reliable and it would probably match the fuel economy or even beat it.


What 426hp BMW can you get for $31k? Hell what BMW can you get for $31k period.

He's saying that it's unusual to see a $31k Camaro. Most of them are in the high-$30,000s instead because they're loaded up with options. Even in the high $30,000s, the Camaro is still a great performance bargain.

BTW, I don't think the SIDI 3.6 sounds ricey. I have the engine in my Cadillac CTS. It's not as quiet and smooth as a Honda V6, but also puts out a lot more power and torque. NVH is probably equivalent to an VQ 3.7 liter in Nissan/Infiniti.

[samy1691]

Bring out the Z-28 with a sleeker body(make it thinner).....lose weight....slope the rear shoulders down at the edges.....put in the 500hp and my order is in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jbartley]

more shocking is that people are still buying the Challenger, when the revised Mustang and new Camaro are so much nicer...