In the AutoblogGreen Garage: 2008 Chevy Tahoe Two-Mode Hybrid

[CmicasatheGreat]

I am so impressed with this SUV U simply don't kno... It has a flaw that limits it's usefulness in the EXTREME Winter but U still are able to get it's advertised MPG. 23.5Average is EXCELLENT for a vehicle this large... and 26.5MPG combined is phenomenal. This flaw is a problem in all all hybrids thus far... and I hate to see what it will be like for TESLA owners in a cold climate.. not that they would drive a sports car in the snow, but it doesn't have to be snowing to be cold.

The great question is... will Li-Ion be better in the Cold than Nimh... and why don't the Manufacturers... GM, Toyota, Ford, etc... sell a system similar to the Engine Warmers that they do as an option in the Maine, Alaska, Minn, etc to keep the batteries warm over night?

[pinyon]

I submit that you can have a large SUV as a TV and still be responsible. I like to camp but just won't sleep in the ground at my age. I use public transportation so the Avalanche almost only goes the short drive to the train station around town with the occasional trip to the Home Depot. If not traveling I go over a month between fill ups. My fuel usage is probably less around town than full time commuters in econo-boxes. Then when I go camping I "spend" my fuel savings and enjoy every minute of it without guilt. If two-mode was available across the board in the longer vehicles and had a couple of years under it's belt to prove reliable in the boonies I'd have gone that way.

[Hurricane]

No need to justify your Suburban to the naysayers. Buy and drive what makes you happy!

I had a small SUV (Equinox) and with only one kid is was far too small for any trip beyond one day, once you load it up with pack-n-play, stroller, and much more. I also like being able to take my in-laws with me when I go out to dinner - sure beats having to take two cars! I also like being able to haul what ever I want to haul whenever I want to.

I have a 2007 Yukon XL Denali that gets only 14.5 mpg but it rides very comfortably, has gobs of passing power, and carries everything I want to carry! I don't use it for my daily commute - I have a smaller car for that. But for hauling family and stuff around, nothing beats it! I love it!

Originally Posted by hrcslam

The rant wasn't directed at you, so I'm sorry if you took it personally. I do get a lot of having to defend owning a Suburban and only from online blogs and forums.

The Civic Si was used because it is another prime example of what people don't need. If people are going to yell at others that drive a full sized vehicle, they should also look at what they are driving and how. And what they actually need to have as basic transportation. If they only need a vehicle for the daily grind and will yell at others that drive a SUV (without the knowledge of why they have one), they should first look at what they are driving and if they really need it. Otherwise, they become hypocrites.

Many people (I know this to be true especially in Hawaii) will drive very short trips then return home (like a 5min trip to McDonald's) then about 2 hours later make another short trip to the grocery store that was right next to the McDonald's they went to earlier. It doesn't matter if your in a compact car, the gas mileage will never see higher than 16. My Ion never got higher than 16 mpg when I was working in Texas and lived only 6 miles from work. The route was ridiculous really, it consisted of a speed limit of 55mph then a stop a left then a speed limit of 65 mph then a stop and a right then a speed limit of 40 mph; horrible for mileage.

I bought my Suburban for $13,700. It was used and took a lot of digging to find, but they are out there. You'd be surprised what you can find for sale in your area if you just know where to look. I once found a 2004 Pontiac Gran Prix GXP (superchargered ) loaded minus leather and OnStar with less than 70K miles on it for only $10,988 and the carfax report came back clean. The only reason we didn't but it was because it didn't have OnStar and that is a specific my wife wants in all of her vehicles. The Gran Prix was going the be hers.

$30,000 is a lot of money for gas, I agree, but I didn't think this conversation was about money savings. A used Geo Metro will best a Toyota Prius in mileage (or so I've heard), or at least come really close, and cost significantly less. If a Prius will run you $22,000 then a Geo Metro will cost you about $21,000 less. That would give you $21,000 for gas and you would end up with only the basic requirement of transportation.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by hrcslam

The rant wasn't directed at you, so I'm sorry if you took it personally. I do get a lot of having to defend owning a Suburban and only from online blogs and forums.

No worries. I'm sure you do get a lot of people tossing insults at you.

The Civic Si was used because it is another prime example of what people don't need. If people are going to yell at others that drive a full sized vehicle, they should also look at what they are driving and how. And what they actually need to have as basic transportation. If they only need a vehicle for the daily grind and will yell at others that drive a SUV (without the knowledge of why they have one), they should first look at what they are driving and if they really need it. Otherwise, they become hypocrites.

Many people (I know this to be true especially in Hawaii) will drive very short trips then return home (like a 5min trip to McDonald's) then about 2 hours later make another short trip to the grocery store that was right next to the McDonald's they went to earlier. It doesn't matter if your in a compact car, the gas mileage will never see higher than 16. My Ion never got higher than 16 mpg when I was working in Texas and lived only 6 miles from work. The route was ridiculous really, it consisted of a speed limit of 55mph then a stop a left then a speed limit of 65 mph then a stop and a right then a speed limit of 40 mph; horrible for mileage.

That's crazy! We had a Mercury Tracer, and it didn't matter how we drove it, we couldn't get below 30 mpg.

I bought my Suburban for $13,700. It was used and took a lot of digging to find, but they are out there. You'd be surprised what you can find for sale in your area if you just know where to look. I once found a 2004 Pontiac Gran Prix GXP (superchargered ) loaded minus leather and OnStar with less than 70K miles on it for only $10,988 and the carfax report came back clean. The only reason we didn't but it was because it didn't have OnStar and that is a specific my wife wants in all of her vehicles. The Gran Prix was going the be hers.

$30,000 is a lot of money for gas, I agree, but I didn't think this conversation was about money savings. A used Geo Metro will best a Toyota Prius in mileage (or so I've heard), or at least come really close, and cost significantly less. If a Prius will run you $22,000 then a Geo Metro will cost you about $21,000 less. That would give you $21,000 for gas and you would end up with only the basic requirement of transportation.

I was thinking in terms of comparing new cars. You got a deal on your Suburban. But somebody had to buy it new - and to me they were either very wealthy or moderately crazy. I think the 2007+ Suburban is a beautiful SUV, but I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how anyone with a family big enough to use most of its space can budget one.

I understand that a Prius doesn't pay for itself in fuel savings compared to a good new economy car, just like a Tahoe Hybrid doesn't pay for itself compared to, say, buying a Tahoe LTZ until you've driven them for many thousands of miles. They're bought because the high tech is a form of a luxury and prestige item - and that's fine with me.

My family has had bad luck buying used cars. We do lots of driving (I probably contribute more to air pollution and foreign oil dependence than you do) and most of the used vehicles we purchase start getting really expensive repairs.

Oh, and as an aside, I'm a stickler for safety. It's probably a waste, because your chances of dying in a car crash are relatively tiny. And if your Suburban hits an economy car, the crash ratings on the little car is irrelevant. But in many less serious crashes, the differences between a Prius (which has reasonably good crash test ratings) and a Metro are enormous. We bought a new Honda minivan instead of a perfectly good used Dodge because of the added safety doohickies on the Honda. (The 2008 Dodge minivans have the full gamut of safety doodads, but they weren't available when we bought the Odyssey.)

[Sinner]

A full size SUV that gets the same city mileage as a 4 cyl Camry blows the whole you don't need a full size SUV/PU argument out of the water.

22mpg is 22mpg no matter what you drive. Most people in N.America live in cities and their cars rarely if ever see true highway miles so saying you get 45mpg highway doesn't mean ****. If I had the cash I'd drop it on a Tahoe Hybrid in a heart beat, it beats the city mileage in my Grand Am.

Hell, you'll stop for gas less in the Tahoe due to the bigger tank, that means less impulse snacks at the convinence store, better for the environment, better for you as well.

[5.3Avalanche]

Originally Posted by BlueMontreal

I try to use the bloc-heather (2h) every cold morning when it goes below minus 12°C. On any cars, it really helps fuel economy. It should be standard in Canada, hybrid or not.

Although true, I think that the extra electricity cost outweighs the extra gasoline usage. Then you're back to square one.

[MechEng]

Originally Posted by CmicasatheGreat

I am so impressed with this SUV U simply don't kno... It has a flaw that limits it's usefulness in the EXTREME Winter but U still are able to get it's advertised MPG. 23.5Average is EXCELLENT for a vehicle this large... and 26.5MPG combined is phenomenal. This flaw is a problem in all all hybrids thus far... and I hate to see what it will be like for TESLA owners in a cold climate.. not that they would drive a sports car in the snow, but it doesn't have to be snowing to be cold.

The great question is... will Li-Ion be better in the Cold than Nimh... and why don't the Manufacturers... GM, Toyota, Ford, etc... sell a system similar to the Engine Warmers that they do as an option in the Maine, Alaska, Minn, etc to keep the batteries warm over night?

Li-Ion will be better in cold weather (depending on the chemistry) than NiMH (some Li-Ion battery chemistries are not good in cold weather). A123 systems batteries are supposed to be somewhat unfazed by cold weather. But the big problem with the 2-mode isn't the batteries. The engine and transmission need to reach temperature (as others have pointed out) and this takes longer than warming the battery.

I think what you are trying to refer to is a battery blanket.

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....4&source=other

One big advantage I see in the Tahoe is that the battery is under the second row of seats so as the cabin warms the battery will warm.

[Kennyboy]

If people choose to purchase a full size SUV, then let them. It's their money, and they have a right to spend their hard earned cash any way they pleased. If they choose to buy a Hummer over a Cobalt, then so be it. Stop attacking people because you disagree with their decision to purchase a vehicle of your personal beliefs.

[bone]

Very impressive vehicle,however, i don't see it being viable in Quebec. Also, I absolutley hate the Hybrid graffic along the side.

[racy]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

Hey, did I go on a rant? Did I call you evil? Did I demand that you sell your SUV or that the government take it away from you?

I'm just going from experience. I know 7 people who own half ton pickups, and only one uses his to tow - and he tows a little trailer that's less than two tons fully loaded. There are hundreds of thousands of people driving around 5000 pound trucks and SUVs that do not use their true space and hauling capabilities at all, or use them at most a few times per year. Be proud to be an exception, but that doesn't undercut my point - the rest are wasting their own money and needlessly contributing extra to our dependence on foreign oil.

And if your Suburban costs less per month than your Ion, how much did you pay for it? $15,000? $12,000? I want to shop where you shop, because most nicely optioned Suburbans near me run past $40,000.

The Civic SI is sold as a sport coupe, and of course it's not much of one - but it will still handily outrun your Suburban and be more fun to drive around a road course. A better comparison is the regular Civic coupe, which still gets 50% better mileage than the Tahoe hybrid.

But more importantly, there's a $30,000 difference. The Tahoe hybrid is great for the environment, and I'm glad GM made it and I hope they profit from it. But $30,000 buys a lot of gas.

You passed judgement. And this post also passes judgement.

It is generally considered in bad taste to approach a person who is overweight and say to them, "Ya know, it would make more sense if you stopped eating so much. Your caloric intake is not matching your caloric needs. I don't see how you can justify purchasing two gallons of whole milk, when you and your family clearly need only one gallon of skim milk".

It looks and sounds bad. Just be a little more considerate.

[BlueMontreal]

Originally Posted by 5.3Avalanche

Although true, I think that the extra electricity cost outweighs the extra gasoline usage. Then you're back to square one.

Not sure about that : a block heater will use 750 kW. For two hours, it's 1.5 kWh. At 0,07 S /kWh, it's about 0,11 $. If I save just 0,5 L of gas (1,15$ /L), it's still less expensive.

And it reduces engine wear, my car get warm faster, it helps reduce emissions, and since power come from hydroelectricity and wind power it's good for the environment.

[BlueMontreal]

Just a really simple and probably stupid question here : what sort of mileage would a , regular (5.3L) Tahoe get if it got all the weight saving work, the aerodynamic improvement and the 6 speed auto ?

[eaton53]

Be proud to be an exception, but that doesn't undercut my point - the rest are wasting their own money and needlessly contributing extra to our dependence on foreign oil.

How far do you drive to work?

My wife drives our Tahoe a half mile each way so if you're driving more than a mile you need to quit wasting your money and our precious resources and move closer to your job.

[hrcslam]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

No worries. I'm sure you do get a lot of people tossing insults at you.



That's crazy! We had a Mercury Tracer, and it didn't matter how we drove it, we couldn't get below 30 mpg.



I was thinking in terms of comparing new cars. You got a deal on your Suburban. But somebody had to buy it new - and to me they were either very wealthy or moderately crazy. I think the 2007+ Suburban is a beautiful SUV, but I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how anyone with a family big enough to use most of its space can budget one.

I understand that a Prius doesn't pay for itself in fuel savings compared to a good new economy car, just like a Tahoe Hybrid doesn't pay for itself compared to, say, buying a Tahoe LTZ until you've driven them for many thousands of miles. They're bought because the high tech is a form of a luxury and prestige item - and that's fine with me.

My family has had bad luck buying used cars. We do lots of driving (I probably contribute more to air pollution and foreign oil dependence than you do) and most of the used vehicles we purchase start getting really expensive repairs.

Oh, and as an aside, I'm a stickler for safety. It's probably a waste, because your chances of dying in a car crash are relatively tiny. And if your Suburban hits an economy car, the crash ratings on the little car is irrelevant. But in many less serious crashes, the differences between a Prius (which has reasonably good crash test ratings) and a Metro are enormous. We bought a new Honda minivan instead of a perfectly good used Dodge because of the added safety doohickies on the Honda. (The 2008 Dodge minivans have the full gamut of safety doodads, but they weren't available when we bought the Odyssey.)

Sounds reasonable to want your safety, I really enjoy mine. Yeah the Metro would be annihilated by just about ever new car available in any size in an accident. But, if I bought one I would only maintain it enough to provide a reliable mode of transportation, and I would convert it to E85. That would be a double whammy. I could even Turbocharge it and still get 35 mpg city out of the thing; but, only about 150 hp with the turbo on a good day. Hmmm, now I really want a Metro.

Originally Posted by Sinner

A full size SUV that gets the same city mileage as a 4 cyl Camry blows the whole you don't need a full size SUV/PU argument out of the water.

22mpg is 22mpg no matter what you drive. Most people in N.America live in cities and their cars rarely if ever see true highway miles so saying you get 45mpg highway doesn't mean ****. If I had the cash I'd drop it on a Tahoe Hybrid in a heart beat, it beats the city mileage in my Grand Am.

Hell, you'll stop for gas less in the Tahoe due to the bigger tank, that means less impulse snacks at the convinence store, better for the environment, better for you as well.

Yeah, and to top it of a Honda Civic Si gets the same city mileage as the GMT-900 RWD Hybrids. That is a perception changer if you ask me.

[hrcslam]

Originally Posted by eaton53

How far do you drive to work?

My wife drives our Tahoe a half mile each way so if you're driving more than a mile you need to quit wasting your money and our precious resources and move closer to your job.

I am wondering what the mileage is on your wifes daily commute with the Tahoe for such a short drive.

When my sister was here she dropped the gas mileage in my Suburban so much it actually ended up being cheaper for me to drive the Suburban to work than the Ion and let her drive the Ion. It was weird.