2011 Chevy Cruze Interior Shown at Paris Auto Show

[fp115]

Originally Posted by steve333

The Mazda 3 doesn't compete with the Cruze? Then what exactly does it compete with? Of course it competes with it.
As to whats under the skin, the current Mazda 3 has a more advanced suspension than the 2010 Cruze. Torsion Beam Rear? So Corolla.

Mazda3 is a premium compact. It competes with the Golf/Rabbit, Astra and the few others in that class. Otherwise it is doing horrible for its class, overpriced, poor mpg, poor performance,...

I love how you can make assumptions on a car's suspension that isn't even on the roads and that you haven't even tried or been in. Remember the Corvette with leaf springs and it handles at par with supercars? You've certainly run out of things to say if you need to come up with excuses such as this to hound on a car.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Canyonaro

Neat......A Geo Metro did as well. Lets get back to 2008 and I can ask the question again if you would like because obviously to answer it you went back to the mid 1990's, not today.

The point is that the cars it is going against as of March 2009, it will get better mpg then it's petro competition. Oh and how much hp does the Civic you have now have (again from my question)?

With tougher emission laws, cars like the old Geo Metro and Honda Civic attaining those extraordinary numbers will not be seen again. Those cars, although they use much less gas can pollute up to 18 times the amount of a normal car. Efficient, but oddly bad for the environment.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by fp115

Don't need to change anything? The Civic cannot at all compete against the Cruze in terms of efficiency, safety, handling and power. Yes Honda needs to change a lot in order to actually compete. All they can change is the looks of a car and even that cannot be completely redone in 2 years. Still Honda will not be able to provide the mileage.

The current Civic is one generation behind the Cruze.

I could do just like you and say that the current Cobalt/G5 cannot at all compete against the upcoming 9th generation Civic, and I would be right too.

In fact, it's hard to find ANY case of comparing a future product whose introduction is ~2 years away against a product that has been on the market for 3+ years in which the older product is better on all fronts...

...so, that kind of comparison is pretty pointless.

Insight is a hybrid. Will not be in the same price range. Honda badge isn't what sells cars anymore. Plus it looks just like a Prius. Has limited production. What does this have to do with the argument again?

Actually, if you can get a hybrid that is, roughly, of similar size/for a similar price to a non-hybrid, why not prefer the hybrid? Much better city mileage...

Please tell us about the price ranges for the Cruze and Insight, since you seem to know so much.

Honda badge does sell cars. Sorry to have to point this out, but the brand has been at the top of resale value and reliability charts forever. The public knows this... Why else would Honda be doing so well? Even this year, with Toyota/Ford/GM/Chrysler down 20-30%, they're holding their own well (together with Nissan, FWIW).

Oops I keep mixing up the Camry and the Corolla. Give away their Malibu? You must be seeing things, since the Malibu is best in class, if you mean in terms of sales, well we all know that isn't possible until it is sold globally.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...106_769033.htm

Originally Posted by link above

Several sources inside the company say GM is looking at product delays to save cash, hoping the company can weather the weak economy and liquidity crisis and make it through to 2010.

All but essential programs are at least getting a review, the sources said. Even the next-generation Chevrolet Malibu could be on the table. GM wants each of its cars to get a makeover every 5½ years, but it may have to stretch that to 7½ years for some models to stay in the black.

(...)

Sources inside the company say that all new products planned for 2009 and 2010 (BusinessWeek.com, 6/3/08) are intact, because most of the development money has been spent. But there could be a lull in new-vehicle launches in 2011 and 2012 if GM has to delay more plans.

That means GM would have some stale products just as the market is expected to turn around. But as a survival plan, it could work.

I guess you must be a more reliable source of info than these "several sources inside the company"...

If you want to keep thinking the Malibu will magically stay best in class as the years go by, fine. After all you seem to be a fan of wishful/positive thinking (deduction from the fact you own large amounts of GM stock).

Doesn't turn heads? Are you sure about that? Clearly haven't seen this car in person or you are a Ford fan, I am going to go for the later. You are just running out of arguments at this point.

Unless the pictures we've been seeing are fakes, I don't think the car will be different in person. FYI, I'm not a Ford fan.

I can't see how the Civic stands out at all. Got to be one of the most boring cars you see on the roads.

Regardless of your personal opinion or mine, fact is that back in 2005 the current Civic was standing out, to the point that many auto industry reviewers were doubting that such a non-conventional looking car could be expected to sell in the same kind of volume as the vanilla 7th generation Civic did.

Maybe the reason it doesn't stand out any more is that so many of them have been sold, they're a common sight on the roads. A problem GM would love to have...

Other than looks, the Cruze packs into an economy car features and numbers that are simply comparable to current or future cars announced by any competitor. Ford, Honda, Toyota cannot possibly re-engineer a car in 2 years to compete against the Cruze on all fronts, its impossible.

Look. In your last TWO posts, you were wrong on the current Civic intro year, you were wrong on the next Focus, you can't tell Corolla and Camry apart... and now you expect me to believe you somehow know so much about the competition's future MY2011 products that you can reliably be sure that the Cruze is better all around? Yeah, right.

Sorry but everything I've seen so far tends to make me believe that you don't really know a lot about what's going on in the auto industry outside GM... which would make me think that you're not in a position to be able to correctly judge how future GM product X will fare against competition's future product Y. Keep going on about how the Cruze is superior to everything out there... meanwhile, I will keep my "I told you so" for 2011 when actual sales numbers start to show up.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Gm786

Ok, so you like a interior that looks like a alien ship design?

Exactly.

This is why I LOVED the interior of my 1990 Pontiac 6000 STE (multi-colored bright lights everywhere ) and it's also the reason I absolutely LOVE the Volt's dashboard.

When GM designs interiors that look like they're straight out of alien ships, you will see me give them abundant praise. (Look up my older comments on the Volt's interior if you don't believe me).

But, as I said, that's only me. I would not necessarily recommend that GM starts giving all vehicle Star Trek-style interiors.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Canyonaro

Neat......A Geo Metro did as well. Lets get back to 2008 and I can ask the question again if you would like because obviously to answer it you went back to the mid 1990's, not today.

The point is that the cars it is going against as of March 2009, it will get better mpg then it's petro competition. Oh and how much hp does the Civic you have now have (again from my question)?

EDIT: nevermind I found it, "A 102-horsepower, 1.5-liter 4-cylinder went into DX and LX models. The top-rung EX 4-door carried a 1.6-liter four with variable valve timing, plus antilock brakes. Other models included the base CX with a 70-horsepower, 1.5-liter four, a miserly new VX that featured a 92-horsepower engine, and a sporty Si with a higher-output 1.6-liter four"

Still not impressive as say a 1.4l turbo engine that is in the Cruze today. I would hope a civic with 70hp would get 40+mpg on the highway, thats the only thing I can see going for it even then.

You asked, you got your answer. I even told you in my post:

"I'm just answering this FWIW, it's not that relevant to the thread."

Emissions aside, there are other factors that helped these cars get high mileage compared to today's ones. Much less hp, much less weight (very basic equipment, and a much lower level of safety).

I would like to replace my Civic with a modern equivalent, but can't.

FWIW again, I did own several Geo Metros (actually, 1 Metro, 1 Pontiac Firefly and 1 Chevrolet Sprint to be exact) and while they got similar mileage, they were much less car in pretty much every single respect than a 5th gen Civic. They're also 1 size class smaller. So, not that impressed.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by lio45

The current Civic is one generation behind the Cruze.

I could do just like you and say that the current Cobalt/G5 cannot at all compete against the upcoming 9th generation Civic, and I would be right too.

In fact, it's hard to find ANY case of comparing a future product whose introduction is ~2 years away against a product that has been on the market for 3+ years in which the older product is better on all fronts...

...so, that kind of comparison is pretty pointless.

Honda has no new platform or powertrain for a new Civic that would be able to compete with the Cruze. If they did it would be announced by now to compete with the Cruze next year when it is introduced.

Originally Posted by lio45

Actually, if you can get a hybrid that is, roughly, of similar size/for a similar price to a non-hybrid, why not prefer the hybrid? Much better city mileage...

Please tell us about the price ranges for the Cruze and Insight, since you seem to know so much.

Honda badge does sell cars. Sorry to have to point this out, but the brand has been at the top of resale value and reliability charts forever. The public knows this... Why else would Honda be doing so well? Even this year, with Toyota/Ford/GM/Chrysler down 20-30%, they're holding their own well (together with Nissan, FWIW).

Because hybrids don't last as long, hybrids are built in limited quantities and you get extra weight on a car that dramatically affects handling.

Honda sales were down 21%, how is that doing so well?

Originally Posted by lio45

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...106_769033.htm

What does a link about stocks have to do with the Cruze?

Originally Posted by lio45

I guess you must be a more reliable source of info than these "several sources inside the company"...

If you want to keep thinking the Malibu will magically stay best in class as the years go by, fine. After all you seem to be a fan of wishful/positive thinking (deduction from the fact you own large amounts of GM stock).

The Malibu is getting an upgrade very soon, it can very well stay where it is. But that was not the point of what I said.

Originally Posted by lio45

Unless the pictures we've been seeing are fakes, I don't think the car will be different in person. FYI, I'm not a Ford fan.

Yet the same people who said didn't like the CTS, Malibu or the Enclave saw it in person and said it was a dramatic difference. To judge any car by images is rather meaningless, for all cars.

Originally Posted by lio45

Regardless of your personal opinion or mine, fact is that back in 2005 the current Civic was standing out, to the point that many auto industry reviewers were doubting that such a non-conventional looking car could be expected to sell in the same kind of volume as the vanilla 7th generation Civic did.

Maybe the reason it doesn't stand out any more is that so many of them have been sold, they're a common sight on the roads. A problem GM would love to have...

Non-conventional? You must mean the coupe, the sedan is bland and boring. The coupe is slightly better, but still nothing to be overly impressed about or that would make my head turn. It has very flat lines, and the details are carved into the shell, there are no defining accents or anything about the car. The front bumper is as close as it gets to any sort of definition, definition is what makes a car stand out.

In the areas I live Honda is certainly not popular, so for me to see so many on the roads is the reason it doesn't stand out, I doubt it. A more comon sight is the Corolla.

Originally Posted by lio45

Look. In your last TWO posts, you were wrong on the current Civic intro year, you were wrong on the next Focus, you can't tell Corolla and Camry apart... and now you expect me to believe you somehow know so much about the competition's future MY2011 products that you can reliably be sure that the Cruze is better all around? Yeah, right.

Sorry but everything I've seen so far tends to make me believe that you don't really know a lot about what's going on in the auto industry outside GM... which would make me think that you're not in a position to be able to correctly judge how future GM product X will fare against competition's future product Y. Keep going on about how the Cruze is superior to everything out there... meanwhile, I will keep my "I told you so" for 2011 when actual sales numbers start to show up.

I said the Euro Focus is coming and it is, the Civic I said it came out in 2006 and it did, how is that wrong again? The competition's future is easy to see as they have been repeatidly doing the same thing over and over again. Honda and Toyota have not announced any new ground breaking platforms, their internal combustion powertrains are laughable comparatively. By the time the Cruze is introduced in Europe next year, the bulk of the competition will be caught red handed and by the time the powertrain for the US model comes around, still it will continue to lead with its powertrain. The only competitor I can see hitting the Cruze's numbers is VW, though with their TDI variants which also cost much more.

[Gm786]

Originally Posted by steve333

Fiesta-Aveo
Euro Focus-Cobalt/Cruze
Mondeo-Malibu
Kuga-Equinox

Not one of GM's offerings is as good as what Ford is bringing out 1 year from now. Not one. The Malibu is the only one that even comes close.
I have hated Ford ever since I drove my father's Granada, but Mullaley is kicking ass like Wagoner never could and never will.
GM is a glommy mess of a company.

First you go around bashing GM about their solid products and to be more precise "the Chevy Cruze" even though your DEAD WRONG! Then you go and RAISE FORD AND THEIR VEHICLES UP TO HEAVEN. AND YOU SAY YOUR THE OWNER OF A CHEVY COBALT SS? Something isn't making sense to me. It sounds to me like your a FORD FAN BOY! [b]I'm going to say this to you for ONE LAST TIME, THE NEW CHEVY CRUZE SMASHES IT'S COMPETITION AND IT UNFORTUNATELY BLOWS THE COBALT OUT OF THE WATER! The new Cruze is probably the best small car to come out of GM when it comes to design and execution IN LIKE FOREVER.

[Gm786]

Originally Posted by lio45

Exactly.

This is why I LOVED the interior of my 1990 Pontiac 6000 STE (multi-colored bright lights everywhere ) and it's also the reason I absolutely LOVE the Volt's dashboard.

When GM designs interiors that look like they're straight out of alien ships, you will see me give them abundant praise. (Look up my older comments on the Volt's interior if you don't believe me).

But, as I said, that's only me. I would not necessarily recommend that GM starts giving all vehicle Star Trek-style interiors.

Again, I can't believe what I'm hearing! Do you actually think that GM would be stupid enough to design a car that has a UGLY, UNWELCOMING, ROCK HARD SEATS, AND DRAB STYLING LIKE THE HONDA CIVIC? Well let me put it this way, you said that until GM does just that then people or the automotive press aren't going to like their interiors. Last time I checked IT WAS GM WHO WAS BEING PRAISED FOR THE INTERIORS THAT ARE IN THEIR CARS AS WELL AS OVERALL DESIGN INSIDE AND OUT. What do you have to say about that????? Nothing? I thought so.... Don't even bring the Chevy Volt into this discussion because YOUR HEADING INTO DANGEROUS TERRITORY BUDDY! The Chevy Volt DOES NOT have an alien ship nor a Star Trek styled interior! YOU MUST BE CRAZY OR SOMETHING TO THINK SOMETHING LIKE THAT. The Volt's interior's design is nothing but a futuristic interior that SIGNALS GM FUTURE. As I said previously, "LEAVE THE VOLT OUT OF THIS DISCUSSION BECAUSE YOUR HEADING INTO DANGEROUS TERRITORY BUDDY".

I hope you choose you next words wisely.

[Mr. Burns]

Originally Posted by Gm786

Alright. I acknowledge that the image I previously posted is probably of a 05 or 06 Honda Civic but the fact doesn't change that it's interior is POORLY DESIGNED.

Here's a image of the 2009 Civic since you seem to be very picky even though there hasn't been any major changes to the interior when compared to 05 to the 09 interior.



Does that look good to you? It is indeed a very UGLY looking interior when compared to the new Chevy Cruze's interior.

you dont get it do you? He's talking about the next gen Civic, which should be out in 2010 (i.e. we do not know what it looks like yet inside or out).


And here's another actual competitor to the cruze:

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Mr. Burns

you dont get it do you? He's talking about the next gen Civic, which should be out in 2010 (i.e. we do not know what it looks like yet inside or out).


And here's another actual competitor to the cruze:
http://www.motorauthority.com/conten...08-950x673.jpg
http://www.motorauthority.com/conten...08-950x673.jpg

The Cruze doesn't compete with this. It competes with the Civic, Corolla, Focus crowd. The Mazda3 is considered a premium compact.

[steve333]

Originally Posted by Eric77TA

Hey, as long as it works, that's what's important. The Cobalt SS Turbocharged manages to outhandle the Mazdaspeed 3 with a torsion beam rear. The Cobalt was 3 seconds faster than the 3 in the Car and Driver Lightning Lap.

Torsion Beam doesn't affect handling it effects ride quality. The Mazda beats the Cobalt, the Civic beats the Cobalt, and they will both beat the Cruze.
I find that pretty sad.

[steve333]

Originally Posted by fp115

Mazda3 is a premium compact. It competes with the Golf/Rabbit, Astra and the few others in that class. Otherwise it is doing horrible for its class, overpriced, poor mpg, poor performance,...

I love how you can make assumptions on a car's suspension that isn't even on the roads and that you haven't even tried or been in. Remember the Corvette with leaf springs and it handles at par with supercars? You've certainly run out of things to say if you need to come up with excuses such as this to hound on a car.

Price them out, son. The only reason the Cobalt sells for far less is because they have to discount them to sell them. Against the 2010 Mazda 3 they will have to do the same thing with the Cruze.
Check out what an organic design looks like-the car looks more expensive than it is. The Cruze does not:
All-New Mazda3 Sedan to Debut at the 2008 LA Auto Show **First Official Photo**

[steve333]

Originally Posted by Gm786

First you go around bashing GM about their solid products and to be more precise "the Chevy Cruze" even though your DEAD WRONG! Then you go and RAISE FORD AND THEIR VEHICLES UP TO HEAVEN. AND YOU SAY YOUR THE OWNER OF A CHEVY COBALT SS? Something isn't making sense to me. It sounds to me like your a FORD FAN BOY! [b]I'm going to say this to you for ONE LAST TIME, THE NEW CHEVY CRUZE SMASHES IT'S COMPETITION AND IT UNFORTUNATELY BLOWS THE COBALT OUT OF THE WATER! The new Cruze is probably the best small car to come out of GM when it comes to design and execution IN LIKE FOREVER.

You're not paying attention. I am bashing GM about the Cruze, its name, and its design, and its suspension.
I praise Ford for actually doing something about their situation, realizing that Ford of Europe has better cars , and is bringing them over here unchanged. Ford has got its act together, they deserve praise. GM doesnt know what the hell its doing from one minute to the next and it shows.
I own a Cobalt LT Sedan. I bought it mainly to support GM and because nothing out there, except the Mazda 3, blew me away, and there were no Mazda's available (remember the ship capsizing with all those Mazda's on it?)
The Cruze will be an improvement over the Cobalt in interior design and may have a little more room, but it has the same suspension, a wierd cheap look to it and a horrible name.
All that leads me to believe that th next Focus, and Mazda 3, will blow the Cruze away. Easily. I didn't want it to happen but unfortunately that's what I see happening.

[steve333]

Originally Posted by fp115

The Cruze doesn't compete with this. It competes with the Civic, Corolla, Focus crowd. The Mazda3 is considered a premium compact.

The Mazda 3 competes with all the cars listed. The Civic can cost more than the 3.
The Cruze is going to retail for more than the Cobalt so it will compete directly with the 3. All the more reason to think it will not do as well as GM would like.

[Buick Riviera]

Originally Posted by steve333

You're not paying attention. I am bashing GM about the Cruze, its name, and its design, and its suspension.
I praise Ford for actually doing something about their situation, realizing that Ford of Europe has better cars , and is bringing them over here unchanged. Ford has got its act together, they deserve praise. GM doesnt know what the hell its doing from one minute to the next and it shows.
I own a Cobalt LT Sedan. I bought it mainly to support GM and because nothing out there, except the Mazda 3, blew me away, and there were no Mazda's available (remember the ship capsizing with all those Mazda's on it?)
The Cruze will be an improvement over the Cobalt in interior design and may have a little more room, but it has the same suspension, a wierd cheap look to it and a horrible name.
All that leads me to believe that th next Focus, and Mazda 3, will blow the Cruze away. Easily. I didn't want it to happen but unfortunately that's what I see happening.

Well if you say so, not. Have you seen the cruze in-person no, I have.