2011 Chevy Cruze Interior Shown at Paris Auto Show

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Gm786

Does that look good to you? It is indeed a very UGLY looking interior when compared to the new Chevy Cruze's interior.

I actually happen to love the current Civic's interior, and I do prefer it to the Cruze's. But that's personal, and I can understand that most people would find the Cruze's interior to be pretty nice, and superior to the average compact interior that's on the lots as I write this (most of them being a few years old already).

[lio45]

Originally Posted by fp115

You must be blind of something, the latest generation, 8th generation was released in 2006 as a 2007 model.

Before calling others blind, how about you check your facts? The latest (8th) generation was released in 2005 as a MY2006 model. Business as usual would mean a new Civic in 2010 as a MY2011.

Out of curiosity, what makes you believe that Honda is suddenly going to "pull a GM" and let their global flagship model grow stale? Even in the post-Carter years of 18% interest the Civic replacement product cycles were a steady 4 years. The current crisis would have to turn into a 1929-magnitude crash to delay the 9th gen Civic...

[lio45]

Originally Posted by fp115

You seem to think that Honda sees the Cruze now and they can automatically change their upcoming Civic in 3 years to compete against the Cruze.

They don't need to change anything. They started working on the next Civic when the current one was released, back in 2005. Besides, I don't see what exactly they would change in answer to the Cruze... it's far from revolutionary, and not a significant threat in any way (especially considering the pricing levels, if we are to trust the info so far).

Honda has no powertrain that can hit the 45 mpg, non-hybrid and in that price range. How will this outclass the Cruze again?

Sub-$20k, >45 mpg Insight. Beats/ties Cruze on the highway, crushes the Cruze in city mileage, squarely in the same price range, and with the Honda badge on the hood to sweeten the deal even more (not that it needed to be sweetened).

Ford isn't getting much of a brand new car, they are simply getting their European version of the Focus. Everyone knows how it looks, the question is will it have the same powertrain (probably not). This will come out in 2010 as well.

The next one, not current one. But I see that someone else has corrected you on this already.

Lastly, the Camry, which was released in 2007/2008 is intended to stick around till 2012. Is slated to keep the current platform.

That's Malibu competition, not Cruze competition. BTW, GM all but announced in other news that they would let the current Malibu (since you bring this Camry/Malibu topic) wither on the vine just like back in the good old times. By the mid-2010s, GM will have to literally give their Malibus away if they want any chance of competing with the Accord/Camry. So, if that's indeed the plan, it looks like it's going to be a return to the starting point for GM... old rental queen with no retail credibility as their main entry in the "heart of market" segment. What a delightful prospect for fans. Compared to this, the fact that the new Camry won't be here before 2012 is sure to bring tears to the Toyota fanboys...

Regardless of the Cruze being announced now, the only company with a chance to reverse its future products is Toyota, but they will be releasing their Camry a full 2 years after the Cruze is out. The Cruze will have the mpg, performance and handling advantage, while having a much better interior (which is arguably a thing of taste). Civics have been and always will be evolutionary, something the Cruze isn't which will allow it to stand out.

Cruze is completely evolutionary... looks like a slightly improved current Hyundai Elantra. Even now, in 2008, that car in the streets won't turn heads. It's just too similar to what's already out there.

On the other hand, I would disagree with you again -- the '06 Civic stood out when introduced. Honda actually took flak from many reviews for being "too daring" with the new design (which not everyone loved... far from it). Where were you in 2005? Certainly not following the auto industry. A widespread opinion back then was that by not playing it safe with the 8th gen Civic, Honda would be sending all those more conservative buyer types straight to the Corolla.

Yes I have GM stocks, likely more than everyone on this forum combined.

Ouch. I feel for you...

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Canyonaro

When was the last time a gas powered Mazda 3, Civic, or Rabbit got around 40mpg on the highway?

The mid-1990s.

The 5th gen Civic I have in my driveway gets:

- 55 mpg highway (old EPA figure)

- 49 mpg highway (new lowered 2008 EPA figure... too low to be realistic, IMO)

- ~52-53 mpg highway (my real world average during normal hwy driving, at 65-70 mph)


I'm just answering this FWIW, it's not that relevant to the thread. It would probably be quite easy to get a current Civic to hit 40 hwy mpg with a few tweaks, if it was that important. Apparently it doesn't prevent the car from selling well...

[Buick Riviera]

Just what and see what the cruze can do before makeing judyment calls. There is going to be other trim-levels of the cruze.

[Gm786]

Originally Posted by steve333

Dude, I own a 2006 Cobalt and I have $1400 points on my GM Card.
Do I have to be a Ford fan to realize their company is managed better than GM and that their new products in the pipeline will be better than GMs?
Believe me, I wish it weren't true and that GM knows what they are doing. It is obvious to me that they don't have a clue. Changing the cars name , cheaping out on the design and suspension, leads me to believe that they screwed up. Again.

I can't believe what I'm hearing! Ford has better products in the PIPELINE THAN GM???? If that's the case then where is it? I haven't seen anything yet besides the new upcoming Ford F-150 and the ugly shoe box on wheels which is the Flex and a few others that aren't even selling that well for Ford. You call that a company that knows how to manage themselves properly? Allow me to answer that for you... Absolutely not! Last time I checked GM is the only North American automaker that even though their sales for the month of September dropped by about 16% was the only automaker who did well in the previous month even when compared to the import competition (Toyota and Honda). Ford posted a monthly sales loss of like about 35%. Would you call that good management? Motor Trend stated on their forum that GM sales were surprisingly good for the month of Sept, and although all automakers are facing a downturn with the condition the economy is in, you have to agree that GM did well last month. Anyway, getting back to Ford... We haven't seen not 1 HOT PRODUCT FROM FORD BESIDES THE LINCOLN MKX AND MKS AND EVEN THAT'S STARTING TO BECOME MEANINGLESS. GM on the other hand has a whole arsenal of cars that are on the road and selling very well and there's only more to come so as I was saying before, Ford is not doing better than GM. All the proof is out there and you are obviously free to take a look at them whenever you like.

[Gm786]

Originally Posted by lio45

I actually happen to love the current Civic's interior, and I do prefer it to the Cruze's. But that's personal, and I can understand that most people would find the Cruze's interior to be pretty nice, and superior to the average compact interior that's on the lots as I write this (most of them being a few years old already).

Ok, so you like a interior that looks like a alien ship design?
You like an interior that doesn't look inviting? Oh and don't forget the seats that feel like rocks and destroy YOUR PRECIOUS BACK!!!

[fp115]

Originally Posted by lio45

They don't need to change anything. They started working on the next Civic when the current one was released, back in 2005. Besides, I don't see what exactly they would change in answer to the Cruze... it's far from revolutionary, and not a significant threat in any way (especially considering the pricing levels, if we are to trust the info so far).

Don't need to change anything? The Civic cannot at all compete against the Cruze in terms of efficiency, safety, handling and power. Yes Honda needs to change a lot in order to actually compete. All they can change is the looks of a car and even that cannot be completely redone in 2 years. Still Honda will not be able to provide the mileage.

Originally Posted by lio45

Sub-$20k, >45 mpg Insight. Beats/ties Cruze on the highway, crushes the Cruze in city mileage, squarely in the same price range, and with the Honda badge on the hood to sweeten the deal even more (not that it needed to be sweetened).

Insight is a hybrid. Will not be in the same price range. Honda badge isn't what sells cars anymore. Plus it looks just like a Prius. Has limited production. What does this have to do with the argument again?

Originally Posted by lio45

The next one, not current one. But I see that someone else has corrected you on this already.

It still doesn't change anything I said...

Originally Posted by lio45

That's Malibu competition, not Cruze competition. BTW, GM all but announced in other news that they would let the current Malibu (since you bring this Camry/Malibu topic) wither on the vine just like back in the good old times. By the mid-2010s, GM will have to literally give their Malibus away if they want any chance of competing with the Accord/Camry. So, if that's indeed the plan, it looks like it's going to be a return to the starting point for GM... old rental queen with no retail credibility as their main entry in the "heart of market" segment. What a delightful prospect for fans. Compared to this, the fact that the new Camry won't be here before 2012 is sure to bring tears to the Toyota fanboys...

Oops I keep mixing up the Camry and the Corolla. Give away their Malibu? You must be seeing things, since the Malibu is best in class, if you mean in terms of sales, well we all know that isn't possible until it is sold globally.

Originally Posted by lio45

Cruze is completely evolutionary... looks like a slightly improved current Hyundai Elantra. Even now, in 2008, that car in the streets won't turn heads. It's just too similar to what's already out there.

On the other hand, I would disagree with you again -- the '06 Civic stood out when introduced. Honda actually took flak from many reviews for being "too daring" with the new design (which not everyone loved... far from it). Where were you in 2005? Certainly not following the auto industry. A widespread opinion back then was that by not playing it safe with the 8th gen Civic, Honda would be sending all those more conservative buyer types straight to the Corolla.

Doesn't turn heads? Are you sure about that? Clearly haven't seen this car in person or you are a Ford fan, I am going to go for the later. You are just running out of arguments at this point.

I can't see how the Civic stands out at all. Got to be one of the most boring cars you see on the roads. Every single generation is like they added something onto it and there is nothing dramatically different about them. They are purely evolutionary and don't change nothing about them. Look at the change in 2009, its just a brutal attempt at even making any changes and in my opinion made it worse.


The fact remains that all you are basing yourself on simply exterior looks. The exterior looks great, sleek, while the interior is leagues ahead of anything seen by any competitor or GM. Show me any sort of sign of a competitor able to put in materials found in the Cruze's interior; between the glossed black, brushed metal and fabric along the dash. Even the pedals aren't flimsy plastic. Other than looks, the Cruze packs into an economy car features and numbers that are simply comparable to current or future cars announced by any competitor. Ford, Honda, Toyota cannot possibly re-engineer a car in 2 years to compete against the Cruze on all fronts, its impossible. A simple MCE takes about 2 years to do and thats just changing a bit of sheet metal. Honda and Toyota are notorious for not changing much more than the sheet metal and some fabrics and calling it a new car. For them to be even able to release a car that fully competes against the Cruze will surely be very surprising.

[FBODYRULES]

Originally Posted by Quickening

My only complaint is the goofy C-pillar filler plastic. Other than that its a great car. Wish we were getting it sooner.

My g/f who lovess her Civic, loves the Cruze more.

she loves Civic's and your still with her?

[Gm786]

Originally Posted by fp115

Don't need to change anything? The Civic cannot at all compete against the Cruze in terms of efficiency, safety, handling and power. Yes Honda needs to change a lot in order to actually compete. All they can change is the looks of a car and even that cannot be completely redone in 2 years. Still Honda will not be able to provide the mileage.


Insight is a hybrid. Will not be in the same price range. Honda badge isn't what sells cars anymore. Plus it looks just like a Prius. Has limited production. What does this have to do with the argument again?


It still doesn't change anything I said...


Oops I keep mixing up the Camry and the Corolla. Give away their Malibu? You must be seeing things, since the Malibu is best in class, if you mean in terms of sales, well we all know that isn't possible until it is sold globally.


Doesn't turn heads? Are you sure about that? Clearly haven't seen this car in person or you are a Ford fan, I am going to go for the later. You are just running out of arguments at this point.

I can't see how the Civic stands out at all. Got to be one of the most boring cars you see on the roads. Every single generation is like they added something onto it and there is nothing dramatically different about them. They are purely evolutionary and don't change nothing about them. Look at the change in 2009, its just a brutal attempt at even making any changes and in my opinion made it worse.


The fact remains that all you are basing yourself on simply exterior looks. The exterior looks great, sleek, while the interior is leagues ahead of anything seen by any competitor or GM. Show me any sort of sign of a competitor able to put in materials found in the Cruze's interior; between the glossed black, brushed metal and fabric along the dash. Even the pedals aren't flimsy plastic. Other than looks, the Cruze packs into an economy car features and numbers that are simply comparable to current or future cars announced by any competitor. Ford, Honda, Toyota cannot possibly re-engineer a car in 2 years to compete against the Cruze on all fronts, its impossible. A simple MCE takes about 2 years to do and thats just changing a bit of sheet metal. Honda and Toyota are notorious for not changing much more than the sheet metal and some fabrics and calling it a new car. For them to be even able to release a car that fully competes against the Cruze will surely be very surprising.

I can't argue with that! Anyone who says that the new Chevy Cruze is ugly or poorly designed, they seriously need to get their eyes checked for sure. The new Cruze smashes the competition when it comes to exterior design and interior design. The only cars that could probably still properly compete with it is probably the VW Jetta TDI and the Mazda 3 but even those are going to have TROUBLE KEEPING UP WITH THE NEW CHEVY Cruze.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Gm786

I can't argue with that! Anyone who says that the new Chevy Cruze is ugly or poorly designed, they seriously need to get their eyes checked for sure. The new Cruze smashes the competition when it comes to exterior design and interior design. The only cars that could probably still properly compete with it is probably the VW Jetta TDI and the Mazda 3 but even those are going to have TROUBLE KEEPING UP WITH THE NEW CHEVY Cruze.

The Mazda 3 technically doesn't compete against the Cruze. I also doubt that the Jetta also competes with it (but I am not sure in this case). Even then those two cars can't compete against the Cruze in terms of whats under its skin. The TDI has a chance to reach the Cruze's mpg numbers, but the price difference may not exactly be worth it.

[steve333]

Originally Posted by Gm786

I can't believe what I'm hearing! Ford has better products in the PIPELINE THAN GM???? If that's the case then where is it? I haven't seen anything yet besides the new upcoming Ford F-150 and the ugly shoe box on wheels which is the Flex and a few others that aren't even selling that well for Ford. You call that a company that knows how to manage themselves properly? Allow me to answer that for you... Absolutely not! Last time I checked GM is the only North American automaker that even though their sales for the month of September dropped by about 16% was the only automaker who did well in the previous month even when compared to the import competition (Toyota and Honda). Ford posted a monthly sales loss of like about 35%. Would you call that good management? Motor Trend stated on their forum that GM sales were surprisingly good for the month of Sept, and although all automakers are facing a downturn with the condition the economy is in, you have to agree that GM did well last month. Anyway, getting back to Ford... We haven't seen not 1 HOT PRODUCT FROM FORD BESIDES THE LINCOLN MKX AND MKS AND EVEN THAT'S STARTING TO BECOME MEANINGLESS. GM on the other hand has a whole arsenal of cars that are on the road and selling very well and there's only more to come so as I was saying before, Ford is not doing better than GM. All the proof is out there and you are obviously free to take a look at them whenever you like.

Fiesta-Aveo
Euro Focus-Cobalt/Cruze
Mondeo-Malibu
Kuga-Equinox

Not one of GM's offerings is as good as what Ford is bringing out 1 year from now. Not one. The Malibu is the only one that even comes close.
I have hated Ford ever since I drove my father's Granada, but Mullaley is kicking ass like Wagoner never could and never will.
GM is a glommy mess of a company.

[steve333]

Originally Posted by fp115

The Mazda 3 technically doesn't compete against the Cruze. I also doubt that the Jetta also competes with it (but I am not sure in this case). Even then those two cars can't compete against the Cruze in terms of whats under its skin. The TDI has a chance to reach the Cruze's mpg numbers, but the price difference may not exactly be worth it.

The Mazda 3 doesn't compete with the Cruze? Then what exactly does it compete with? Of course it competes with it.
As to whats under the skin, the current Mazda 3 has a more advanced suspension than the 2010 Cruze. Torsion Beam Rear? So Corolla.

[Canyonaro]

Originally Posted by lio45

The mid-1990s.

The 5th gen Civic I have in my driveway gets:

- 55 mpg highway (old EPA figure)

- 49 mpg highway (new lowered 2008 EPA figure... too low to be realistic, IMO)

- ~52-53 mpg highway (my real world average during normal hwy driving, at 65-70 mph)


I'm just answering this FWIW, it's not that relevant to the thread. It would probably be quite easy to get a current Civic to hit 40 hwy mpg with a few tweaks, if it was that important. Apparently it doesn't prevent the car from selling well...

Neat......A Geo Metro did as well. Lets get back to 2008 and I can ask the question again if you would like because obviously to answer it you went back to the mid 1990's, not today.

The point is that the cars it is going against as of March 2009, it will get better mpg then it's petro competition. Oh and how much hp does the Civic you have now have (again from my question)?

EDIT: nevermind I found it, "A 102-horsepower, 1.5-liter 4-cylinder went into DX and LX models. The top-rung EX 4-door carried a 1.6-liter four with variable valve timing, plus antilock brakes. Other models included the base CX with a 70-horsepower, 1.5-liter four, a miserly new VX that featured a 92-horsepower engine, and a sporty Si with a higher-output 1.6-liter four"

Still not impressive as say a 1.4l turbo engine that is in the Cruze today. I would hope a civic with 70hp would get 40+mpg on the highway, thats the only thing I can see going for it even then.

[Eric77TA]

Originally Posted by steve333

The Mazda 3 doesn't compete with the Cruze? Then what exactly does it compete with? Of course it competes with it.
As to whats under the skin, the current Mazda 3 has a more advanced suspension than the 2010 Cruze. Torsion Beam Rear? So Corolla.

Hey, as long as it works, that's what's important. The Cobalt SS Turbocharged manages to outhandle the Mazdaspeed 3 with a torsion beam rear. The Cobalt was 3 seconds faster than the 3 in the Car and Driver Lightning Lap.