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Small hatchback shopping

14K views 58 replies 28 participants last post by  Andries80 
#1 · (Edited)
My 2005 Mini Cooper S seems to be one step away from being grounded ($1000+ to remove the clutch assembly to determine what's wrong? Screw that!). So now my wife gets her wish to have a newer car.

Mandatories for both of us (some are nudges, as she doesn't want a sedan):
- Manual tranny (the top mandatory)
- Sunroof
- Navigation

Here's a list of cars we tested or looked at:
- Mazda 3
- Mazda CX-3
- VW GTi
- VW Golf or wagon
- Mini Cooper Clubman
- Mini Cooper Countryman
- Mini Cooper 4-door (S too expensive for all Minis)
- Chevrolet Cruze
- Chevrolet Bolt
- Chevrolet Trax
- Subaru Crosstour (or whatever they call it)
- Subaru Impreza
- Honda Civic
- Honda HRV
- Ford Focus ST

Right now, the top 3 are the Mazda, Mini, and VW.

I never thought I'd ever say this, but the Golf is a bargain in Wolfsburg regalia. It may even be cheaper than the Mazda when it comes to the 36 mos/15k miles/$2500 down that we plan on doing. The Mini will prob be too expensive.

I'd rather go to the GTi, but in order to get the sunroof, I have to move up several trim levels, which will get expensive. On the other hand, the step up for other cars end up cancelling themselves not due to cost like the VW, but due to the fact that the higher trim levels come standard with automatic.

The Cruze suffers from that annoying packaging issue but, honestly, it was simply not as enjoyable to drive as the VW and Mazda.

While the Civic is ugly, I could live with it. Alas, getting the turbo engine in the EX-L with a stick is at a sweet price point but no sunroof; all of the super-ugly hatchbacks come with turbo, but no stick/sunroof combo available. Too bad, as the reviews for the car have been great. We did check out a normally aspirated Civic with stick but my wife wasn't entranced (and paled in comparison to the VW and Mazda).

And the Focus ST? Rough-around-the-edges fun, but I dislike the interior and the Galpin Ford salesman said it was not available for lease (really? I think he's mistaken). I convinced him to let me test it, but then I called another local deal who gave me some lease terms that are well over $100 more than the VW (which is like 90% the car the GTi is, at about $8000 less).

But this is a lease, which means I can let my heart rest because German cars were made to be leased, not owned (please don't ask me how I know!).

While I'm not a "Buy American!"-kind of guy, I am not finding many options from Detroit. From there or otherwise, I'm open to suggestions, but I think I've exhausted everything worthy to satisfy my enthusiast heart while having a bit of utility and economy.
 
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#3 · (Edited)
We did a similar comparison. Though different cars and options. We wanted hatchback, sport suspension. For my wife we have to go auto. So she has a 2016 Ford Focus SE Hatch with the Sport package. My turn came in Jan. Again I looked at a lot of different vehicles. Ended up with a 2017 Civic Hatchback Sport. I wanted the manual but they sold it and there were none in Michigan. So I settled for the CVT. Yes its looks are polarizing, but it does handle nice. My "must have list" was an engine with at least 180hp and good torque, suspension package, 4 wheel disc, good seats, sign & drive lease, And for my wife... Low lease payment. The civic delivered most of my "wants". I wanted the GTI but the lease was almost $100.00 more per month. Kia/Hyundai didnt have a car that could handle. Mazda lease was to high and the dealers could not find a 2.5L engine. The Focus with the 2.0L engine is ok, but not for me. The ST I was told back in Jan, Ford wasnt leasing them. Now you can. Stupid move by Ford! I have used the Civic as a wagon/pickup at least 3 times now. Yep I like Hatchbacks. The Cruze hatch is nice, my wife likes the looks of the Cruze, but it has one of the smallest hatch openings & cargo space. No true performance package or suspension package. Hello GM WAKE up! GM needs to get serious about the "hot hatch" models.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I will fall back on my old tried-and-true favorite, KIA Soul. Just one problem. Well, two.

1. Stick available only on base 1.6 model.
2. Toys and powah on top model, the !. OR the midline +, which can be loaded up too. But both can be had relatively cheap, considering. And the auto is "shiftable" so along with the driver making engine noises (rmmm, rmmm, rmmmm, rrrrttttt!!! etc.) as you drive, I think that adequately addresses the stick shift problemo!

Well, three.
3. There is Nav and there is Nav. Spoiled by my humble Garmin 2598, the confusion of the Mazda nav, its lack of much of a street database, and the generally VERY IRRITATING dial-it-up control, is something I'd take a long look at before leasing. I don't know how good the VW nav is, but ALL NAVS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL.
Some are just hopeless damn fools, like the Mazda system. I wasted 400 bucks, learn from the mistakes of others.


I actually recently considered a base Soul--though I wanted an ! turbo--during my current car-fluffle, it's about as quick (I think) as the Terrain I leased. Too bad KIA saleshomies seem congenitally unable to do the work--like follow up, return calls, return emails, etc.--needed to actually close the deal. Even for people READY TO BUY. Ditto the "managers."
Good luck.

You can about buy the base Soul for as cheap as you can lease a 'dubya, I think. I found the Golf I drove quite unremarkable, but to each his own. And the VW was oddly susceptible to cross winds. Not a big deal I guess for most people.

Buy a base Soul stick for cheap cheap cheap. Get a hole cut in da roof. OR have a professional s'n'oofer guy do a professional job.

Buy a good $200-$300 6" or even 7" reconditioned Garmin. Maybe one with a built-in cam.

You get Big KIA Warranty and not the headaches of taking the VW in every few months for another failed system of one sort or another.
 
#9 ·
3. There is Nav and there is Nav. Spoiled by my humble Garmin 2598, the confusion of the Mazda nav, its lack of much of a street database, and the generally VERY IRRITATING dial-it-up control, is something I'd take a long look at before leasing. I don't know how good the VW nav is, but ALL NAVS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL.
Some are just hopeless damn fools, like the Mazda system. I wasted 400 bucks, learn from the mistakes of others
Personally, I don't get why people order car nav systems anymore. As long as the system has Apple CarPlay and/or Android Auto, you should not need an expensive and soon to be obsolete nav.
Well, unless you live in an area with patchy coverage.
 
#8 ·
my experience with VW is they are ONLY as good as the repair shop's techs VW's tech support is quite bad and not all the techs are VERY GOOD on complex cars and it seems VW's are MECHANICALLY quite good but the ADD ON electrical accessories ETC are issue prone whereas Hyundais are the opposite they sh%t an engine BUT the power mirrors all work

Mazda's look to be quite reliable and are GETTING better as far as rusting out (do NOT see used Mazda's as the rust KILLS them VERY QUICKLY up here )

MINI in my friends experience MAKES VW look reliable AND CHEAP to repair and LIKE VW are very mechanic dependant and LESS independant friendly

your top 3 I would LEASE the VW BUY the Mazda and PASS the MINI

the Nissan JUKE is quite "sporty" for a cheap compact CUV and the JEEP renegade both NOT on your LIST and you did include the HR-V and TRAX

you included the BOLT with MISSES your "must haves" the VOLT would be cheaper with better availability

what about gently used WRX?
 
#10 · (Edited)
Sonic hatch is about same size as Minis, doesn't feel much smaller than Cruze hatch to me. 2017 styling way better than fugly civic hatch IMO, 20% off MSRP on some models right now. Even my lowly LS with 1.8L 5sp manual is a gas to drive, but you'll want an LT or Premier with 1.4T 6sp manual with sunroof option. apple/android and onstar for nav.

If power isn't enough, 1.4T is by all accounts easily tunable for more (see sonicownersforum.com for a lot of discussion on that).

Let us know what you choose!
 
#15 ·
I have an older Mazda 3 (2005 model, 2.3L with 4 speed auto), hopefully they improved a few items in the latest models from then:

- Useless AC system. It's a common complaint about Mazdas, at least it used to be. Their AC systems are the absolute pits. Make sure you test out a car with a black interior on a hot day and see how long it takes the car to cool down. Mine never can cool down properly and there is nothing wrong with the system in my car, it's the garbage design.

- Rust, as mentioned earlier. I had the problem in all 4 doors, one in particular being the worst. The dealer had it corrected but it was due to shoddy prep at the factory and again, a known issue in Mazdas spanning generations. It wasn't due to where I lived (central North Carolina), it was due to improper cleaning of the bare metal where the inner door frame was welded to the outer sheet metal skin. In several areas around the seam where the 2 panels meet, from underneath the rubber "weatherstrip" that's painted over at that, rust came creeping out around the 3rd year of ownership.

- Mediocre gas mileage, hopefully the SkyActiv engines improve that. So far, my 2017 Malibu with the 2L turbo/9 speed auto gets *better* MPG in both city and freeway.

- NOISE. Mazdas lack sound insulation, they're fun to drive but the racket gets tiring. That's one of the main reasons I got my Malibu, I was tired of the NOISE.

Reliability of my 3 was OK, nothing spectacular in the least though. My wife's 2010 Equinox, bought in Nov. 2009, had vastly fewer issues in the nearly 8 years we've had it compared to the Mazda at the 8 year mark. And the Mazda costs a LOT more to get fixed than the 'Nox, labor isn't that bad but parts prices are too often at BMW levels.
 
#16 ·
I have an older Mazda 3 (2005 model, 2.3L with 4 speed auto), hopefully they improved a few items in the latest models from then:

- Useless AC system. It's a common complaint about Mazdas, at least it used to be. Their AC systems are the absolute pits. Make sure you test out a car with a black interior on a hot day and see how long it takes the car to cool down. Mine never can cool down properly and there is nothing wrong with the system in my car, it's the garbage design.

- Rust, as mentioned earlier. I had the problem in all 4 doors, one in particular being the worst. The dealer had it corrected but it was due to shoddy prep at the factory and again, a known issue in Mazdas spanning generations. It wasn't due to where I lived (central North Carolina), it was due to improper cleaning of the bare metal where the inner door frame was welded to the outer sheet metal skin. In several areas around the seam where the 2 panels meet, from underneath the rubber "weatherstrip" that's painted over at that, rust came creeping out around the 3rd year of ownership.

- Mediocre gas mileage, hopefully the SkyActiv engines improve that. So far, my 2017 Malibu with the 2L turbo/9 speed auto gets *better* MPG in both city and freeway.

- NOISE. Mazdas lack sound insulation, they're fun to drive but the racket gets tiring. That's one of the main reasons I got my Malibu, I was tired of the NOISE.

Reliability of my 3 was OK, nothing spectacular in the least though. My wife's 2010 Equinox, bought in Nov. 2009, had vastly fewer issues in the nearly 8 years we've had it compared to the Mazda at the 8 year mark. And the Mazda costs a LOT more to get fixed than the 'Nox, labor isn't that bad but parts prices are too often at BMW levels.
Thanks for the reminder. Though constant fiddling usually kept the Maz6 reasonably comfortable, I'd have to crank the temp way up or way down to get it to do what I wanted it to do. I found it very odd, like modern AC is some sort of a mystery to ANYONE any more. Perhaps it is. It's an issue I never remembered to comment on. Compared to my Soul, it was oddly unresponsive and unsettled, for want of a better term.

The Terrain--I realize it's not a small hatch with a stick, but I have to remark on GM's AC--has excellent AC. It's also the ONLY car in memory I've owned that showed the drip drip drip of water coming out the tube under the car. My wife's PT also dehumidifies like that, but other cars IIRC have for some reason just not left the trail of distilled water in the driveway.
 
#17 ·
I'd go Focus ST, and if I could find a low-mileage pre-owned, I'd grab an RS.

No vehicle on the list comes close in terms of the performance/fun quotient.

Yes, the interior sucks and the backseat is cramped, but I would guess you'd forget those things the moment you start driving it.

And I'm not a Ford guy...At all!
 
#21 ·
I think there are more people searching for the manual transmission with sunroof and leather seats combination than the automakers realize. Especially in a nimble, fun to drive platform like a hatchback. It's something of which most automakers appear willfully unaware. It's almost like the revelation of SUV's in the 90's and then CUV's, finally followed by compact CUV's much more recently. Each step seemed to be a surprise to the automakers . I believe all of these segments would have sold well a full decade or more before their mass adoption if they'd been packaged correctly (those in existence were far too utilitarian for most people). Alas, as electric looms on the horizon...it may be too late for the manual transmission as it is not needed in an EV world.
 
#25 ·
^This. Golf, and especially GTI have been the class of the segment for a long time. Either lease or buy an extended warranty if you are worried about reliability. VW/Audi make sweeeet 2.0L Turbo's, I've driven several.

Focus ST would probably be my second choice. Can you get the Si version of the Civic in the hatch? That would be my third if you could.

Cruze diesel would be interesting if you could get it in the hatch.
 
#30 ·
I have a 2013 Mazda 3-the A/C takes a while to cool the interior.
There is no sound insulation still and I can sometimes barely hear my radio and this is with the windows closed.
Horrible ride on grooved freeways and rough streets.
Automatic shifts aren't good at all.
Handles well for an inexpensive car and looks good but that's about it
 
#33 ·
The GTi and ST will be $100+ more/month. I told the local Ford dealership I'd consider it closer to $300 but he can't do it with the sunroof.

My wife loves the sunroof.....as do I. If I was a native Californian, I prob would forego it because there's sun all the time, but my Mid-Atlantic upbringing has conditioned me to revel in the sun at all moments. (How did I arrive at that theory? In the late 1960s, Ford sold the most Mustang ragtops in the Boston sales zone – even more than in the Los Angeles zone; that was pretty true of many Rust Belt zones, although LA was still up there.)
 
#41 ·
VW has always had excellent ad campaigns. Contrast that with real actors, not people etc. pathetic waste of money. Werd.
 
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#45 ·
I used to work as an advertising copywriter, so I am familiar with all these ads, not to mention I'm jaded so ads generally don't influence me. :)

Man, some of the salespeople are so predictable. I think, for the most part, the process has been decent but some folks try too hard when speaking to an enthusiast. I think when a car becomes a quasi-commodity (like the Civic, which is the best-selling car in CA or Los Angeles – can't remember which), customer service takes a hit; can't explain why the VW salesmen have been so lame.

New shipment at the local Mazda dealership so I'll check out their new inventory before I start playing hardball.
 
#49 ·
Funny--not really--how dealers and sales people are often the greatest impediment to a vehicle purchase. Skynet/Carnet is coming. :drive:
 
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