WSJ: GM Engineer Says Quality Remains 'Achilles' Heel'

[TKR]

Originally Posted by A Bum In A Bus

Finally a post that makes sense, this dude should be fired if he actually made that statement. As to employees and quality, some will say anything, many employees hate the company they work for, some of the time it's warranted, most of the time it's sour grapes. I have worked with people that did nothing but bitch and gripe about the treatment they received, yet were lazy as hell and never did their job. The way GM has body slammed thousands of their employees lately, it doesn't surprise me that an employee would slam GM. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it's as likely as not.

Mr Ruess, your butt should be in the unemployment line this morning, if I was your boss that's exactly where you would be, what a bozo.

So you would fire the guy who sees the need to improve not only the perception that GM's quality is not up to par? That is the kind of head in the sand thinking that got GM into this mess.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by Extreme4x4

You have got to be kidding me !!!!

A plastic bearing???

Whoever came up with that brainstorm needs to be shot. This is the steering for goodness sakes.

I have been an auto enthusiast for decades. I have seen complaints about steering shafts for a long, long time. That GM has seen fit to NOT fix this issue, is beyond incompetant to me. That GM fans have put up with the issue this long, and stayed loyal, is beyond amazing.

I'm sorry, but to just keep producing this same garbage part, year after year after year, ad nauseum, is almost beyond comprehension.

my new 1982 celebrity had this problem and the fix was a coil spring around the "U" joint to tighten it up

[ponchoman49]

The fact that the same old stupid problems are STILL resurfacing after 15 years like the intermediate steering shaft issues tells me that they really don't get it.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by goblue

What do you expect, he is our resident Ford troll...It's OK, the site needs all kinds, but I've just got to learn not to click on links where he is the OP and GM is in the subject. I blame myself.

Why have you got to learn that? You don't like GM-related news? Then you'll have to learn to stay away from this forum...
On the other hand, those of us who would rather not bury our heads in the sand do like it when GMI contributors take some of their own time to locate and share relevant news articles. So, thanks to all, including Simon.

[ColoradoZQ8]

Originally Posted by 94SS

My 08 Malibu LTZ with 6sp 4 cyl has not been problem free. I had to take it in 3 times for them to finally fix my steering clunking noise. It was a problem wit the steering column shaft...and judging by the Malibu Forum, they should have known that as many of the BU owners there with 08s and 09s have had theres in for the same issue. They should have recalled instead of this crap they pull. I love the car, but steering problems with under 20x miles, come on GM. Get it right the first time.

It took 3 rebuilds on my Cobalt before the transmission stopped slipping.
I think some dealers are better trained than others.

.....I had constant problems with the 2006 Cobalt. I just got sick of fixing it and recently dumped it -- and no longer have a GM product as my daily driver

(still have several classic Chevys, though -- which were obviously built better, since they run great at 30+ years old).

[jry]

I like whitacre's approach, hit it head on.
193 out of multiple thousands is not bad but its worth researching. Of course, you have to ask the right questions. Those pre canned research questions..... "GM makes me feel, Proud, happy, sad.......
How about, why did you return your car? Then, let them talk.
My recent GM cars, all bought new... 2003 Bonne, 2006 STS, 2008 Vette... Bullet proof.
The 2002 Saturn tow car (L100) we bought used and gee whiz, what a car. Wish i had held on to the Bonne and the STS. Not planning on parting with the Vette.

[FanOfDurant]

You have got to be kidding me !!!!

A plastic bearing???

Whoever came up with that brainstorm needs to be shot. This is the steering for goodness sakes.

I have been an auto enthusiast for decades. I have seen complaints about steering shafts for a long, long time. That GM has seen fit to NOT fix this issue, is beyond incompetant to me. That GM fans have put up with the issue this long, and stayed loyal, is beyond amazing.

I'm sorry, but to just keep producing this same garbage part, year after year after year, ad nauseum, is almost beyond comprehension.

I really hope someone of importance at GM reads these boards here from time to time. PLASTIC?? I've had 1 experience with Junk plastic parts. An old 327 I was driving had a plastic cam timing gear and the teeth stripped off of it. When I took it apart I was in Shock that there was a plastic gear in my motor. This was a factory gear too! Complete Junk..... just to save a few precious pennies.. A nice sturdy double roller timing chain set went on there after that mess. Ed needs to solve these issues Now and put a stop to this crap. People only remain loyal for so long and these days there's too many other choices.

[ensign83]

Originally Posted by Dr. Show-Me

If GM wants customers back or conquest sales, they better come up with a way to counter this negative issue. Give people a long warranty so GM picks up the cost of lesser reliability.

good take

[Chaz_23]

'87 Pontiac Firebird: engine cooling issues, typical GM V8 leaky valve guides
'98 Saturn SL: bad break rotors, engine cooling issues, ignition issues on sunny days
'06 Pontiac Grand Prix: break rotors, engine cooling issues, ignition issues on sunny days

(A G6 I rented also displayed aweful shaking when applying brakes downhill)

Not much improvement in 20 years...

Originally Posted by BigC

Just out of curiosity what kind of vehicle have you been driving that is having these issues?

[steinravnik]

Originally Posted by Chaz_23

(A G6 I rented also displayed aweful shaking when applying brakes downhill)

The shaking brakes are usually due to a warped rotor. Being a rental car, someone probably drove it really hard and slammed on the brakes too many times, warping the rotors.

[jry]

I think that Hummer used nylon/teflon parts in the front end.
I can remember the dealer telling me this when i cracked up the H3.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by MarkSS

If this article is representative of what Mr. Ruess actually said, he should - < rethink his statement from the ground up starting with his assumptions >. Legitimating Consumer Reports methods is a poor decision and using the term Achilles Heel regarding quality (which I don't believe is true) is an even poorer decision. JD Power has shown GM models at the top as well as other independent testing.

Best post in the thread so far - no question.

I made a small change although I could go with yours as written depending on what more information would provide.

Originally Posted by 70eldo

Finally their eyes are opened. Though it is a little chicken to say the workers never dared to speak up about quality issues, because they feared for their job. Upper level mgnt never seemed to have an open ear.
It would be more fair to say management never wanted to hear about quality issues and forced workers to shut up.

Trust me, it works that way in many - to all large organizations.

Many small ones as well.

Not too hard to understand - its the result of competing product / program agendas & goals along with how those interact with career considerations.

And the biggie - the nature of the human beast.

More to the point, its happened at the falsely represented 'quality leaders' in this industry who also btw, use real, other determined quality data systems & treat CR internally as it is - a marketing tool.

Originally Posted by A Bum In A Bus

Finally a post that makes sense, this dude should be fired if he actually made that statement.

Mr Ruess, your butt should be in the unemployment line this morning, if I was your boss that's exactly where you would be, what a bozo.

I'll go farther than that. If Mr Whitacre whom I really have been 'enjoying' so far, had anything to do with - he just made his first massive mistake.

Originally Posted by mkaresh

This is the exact attitude that, according to Reuss, has made it so hard to fix the problems.

I've met Mark Reuss a number of times, and given his background there is no way he hates GM. It is refreshing to see him speaking so candidly.

Frankly, I'm surprised that Reuss was speaking about anything. He's not much of a talker. I noticed that his team, and not just Reuss, will be making these calls. I don't see this as a comfortable experience for him.

In the long run, you can't ignore problems away or eliminate them by attacking those who talk about them. The only viable alternative is to accept that they exist, and fix them.

Sounds just so 'sexy' - but you left out a critical aspect ie the need for accurate measurement of both your own and what the competition / industry is doing.

Consumer Reports fails on virtually all aspects of demonstrated validity - and integrity.

That last is actually also about scientific measure & academic considerations and not just organizational behavior.

There is not a single recognized and respected quality standards organization on the planet that recognizes them and their methods and information as valid.

They do need to be dealt with and should be and it is a fair statement that it is a massive failure - one of the worst by Ford, GM, and Chrysler that they have not done so to date.

Critically, the correct way to deal with them is to recognize them as they are ie a powerful marketing / spin influence but also as an illegitimate information source.

The worst approach is to treat them as anything else - shows a stunning lack of basic information concerning this organization, its history, its standing in the world of Quality / Reliability measurement, its methodology, its funding, and its 'published' results.

Sounds like the main thing here is something that 'originated' in a generic sense from Mr. Whitacre.

Btw, if you eliminate the Honda / Acura and Toyota / Lexus information the rest of it although still not legitimate does many times come a lot closer to a real conclusion.

Still hit and miss and really more along the lines of even a blind squirrel can get it right - sometimes.

[ensign83]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Best post in the thread so far - no question.
I made a small change although I could go with yours as written depending on what more information would provide.
Trust me, it works that way in many - to all large organizations.
Many small ones as well.
Not too hard to understand - its the result of competing product / program agendas & goals along with how those interact with career considerations.
And the biggie - the nature of the human beast.
More to the point, its happened at the falsely represented 'quality leaders' in this industry who also btw, use real, other determined quality data systems & treat CR internally as it is - a marketing tool.

I'll go farther than that. If Mr Whitacre whom I really have been 'enjoying' so far, had anything to do with - he just made his first massive mistake.
Sounds just so 'sexy' - but you left out a critical aspect ie the need for accurate measurement of both your own and what the competition / industry is doing.

Consumer Reports fails on virtually all aspects of demonstrated validity - and integrity.

That last is actually also about scientific measure & academic considerations and not just organizational behavior.
There is not a single recognized and respected quality standards organization on the planet that recognizes them and their methods and information as valid.

They do need to be dealt with and should be and it is a fair statement that it is a massive failure - one of the worst by Ford, GM, and Chrysler that they have not done so to date.

Critically, the correct way to deal with them is to recognize them as they are ie a powerful marketing / spin influence but also as an illegitimate information source.
The worst approach is to treat them as anything else - shows a stunning lack of basic information concerning this organization, its history, its standing in the world of Quality / Reliability measurement, its methodology, its funding, and its 'published' results.
Sounds like the main thing here is something that 'originated' in a generic sense from Mr. Whitacre.

Btw, if you eliminate the Honda / Acura and Toyota / Lexus information the rest of it although still not legitimate does many times come a lot closer to a real conclusion.

Still hit and miss and really more along the lines of even a blind squirrel can get it right - sometimes.

Okay. But...

I do not think there is any conspiracy here. Too many folks buy the competitors products.
They are NOT all hoodwinked by CR, or the Japan, Inc. cabal.
Leaky Intake gaskets are just one widespread foible. They suck. They fully impact car ownership today. They WERE completely unavoidable.
Knock the study. Kill the messenger. But pay your taxes, the bailout needs funding...

[syr74]

For those who might wonder why I am a GM skeptic....

1977 Oldsmobile 98: Huge, and a pretty good car too Dad's last land barge for some time, it served him well.

1984 Chevy Cavalier: great car Well, in terms of reliability at least.

1985 Cadillac DeVille: semi-junk, but not as bad as others. I'll call it junk but it was something of a hold-over from a fairly dark period in US auto manufacturing. Surprisingly everyone gave Caddy something of a pass here, including mom.

1986 Monte Carlo: great car Brothers car.

1987 Pontiac 6000: great car Simple transport for dad, still one of the best cars my parents have ever owned.

1992 Saturn SC2: exceptional car No problems, ever, and she owned this one a while.

1997 Cadillac Catera: even utter junk doesn't cover it. Literally, worst...car....ever. My moms last GM purchase, likely ever.

1999 Pontiac Grand Am: utter junk. Wife's first new car, bought before we were married, she drives an Accord now.

2004 Isuzu Ascender: semi junk Same sister who owned the Saturn and Cavalier owned this, and an Envoy by any other name is still an Envoy. Started developing major issues as mileage mounted, but my sister traded it off promptly when troubles began so no real record of how things went long term. Still, it cost her a pretty penny even in those last few months, overall not a good experience.

2006 Grand Prix: utter junk In-laws car. A myriad of problems throughout the time they have owned it, the latest of which is a valve tap which started at just north of 100k miles.

2008 Cobalt; utter junk Another siblings daily slugger. Still under warranty, thank God. Spends as much time in the shop as it does on the road.

That is a spotty record to be kind. Three great cars does not make up for two which were lackluster and four which were genuinely terrible....two of which amazingly so. And do note that as time passes the experience hasn't gotten better.

Worth noting for those who underestimate the hole GM has dug for themselves in this market. Of all the vehicles currently owned by my immediate family (I'm including parents, in-laws, siblings and their spouses here) two were manufactured by GM and we are talking about eighteen people and roughly the same amount of vehicles. Anybody here think the above experience has something to do with that? Even more, both of those remaining GM vehicles are presently being considered for trade, primarily because they are the two most troublesome vehicles anybody in our family owns, and at the moment a GM is not on the list of potential replacements for either.

A snipper of some of the newer cars currently in the stable of the immediate family.

Honda Accord
Honda Civic Si
Ford Focus
Ford Taurus
Ford Taurus
Lincoln LS
Dodge Ram
Chrysler Pacifica
Nissan Altima
Infiniti QX56
Chevy Cobalt
Pontiac Grand Prix

New cars that I know to be under serious consideration for near future purchase by either me or immediate family members

2010 F-150 (father)
2010 Fusion/Milan (brother)
2010 Taurus (father)
2010 Lincoln MKS (my in-laws)
2011 Mustang GT (me)
2011 3-Series (my wife)
2010 300C (brother-in-law)
2010 Civic (sister-in-law)

and the sole GM vehicle of which I am aware under consideration by any of my family members?

2011 Camaro SS (brother)

What you do follows you, and that applies to companies too. One family? Yes, but that is a lot of cars and a whole lot of people, and this is just my immediate family, the effect goes well beyond just that. Now think 100 families, or 1000 families. You can get to 100,000 potential customers in a hurry and use a surprisingly small amount of families.