Who Says GM Was Late To The Hybrid Game?

[Jeffff]

If you squint your eyes and try to read that article, it looks like the engine was a two-cylinder, and the top speed of the car was 60 mph, with a 0 to 60 time of 25 seconds.

[Pimp Caddilac]

gm owns

[kenman923]

My thought is that they wanted to get it right.

[Geotpf]

So is the question why didn't GM build the minivan, and at least continue some research and contingency planning with the hybrids? I'd also throw in how could GM botch the diesel technology when they owned Detroit Diesel and the locomotive business. The answer is obvious isn't it? It's the UAW's fault.

The UAW doesn't give a shiat about what they build. You tell them to build a hybrid, they'll build a hybrid. It's management who decides what gets built, not the union.

The problem is the bean counters at GM. When Toyota and Honda were first working on thier modern, production hybrids, gas in the United States was like 80 cents a gallon (mid to late 1990's). But they did it anyways, because they thought they could show that they were "Green", and as a hedge if gas prices did increase, which they, in fact, did. GM didn't do hybrids, because they were making gobs of money by selling big SUVs, so the bean counters (not the union) couldn't see the point. Now that the SUV fad is over, GM is having to scramble to try to catch up.

[Geotpf]

Just squinted at the text of the brochure. The last sentence in the first paragraph reads, "At the present stage of development, the car is in mockup condition." That is to say, when they printed the brochure, the car did not actually work, and it probably never did, since nobody has ever heard of this thing, so I suspect development did not get any farther than the mockup.

[GMMediumDutyMQ]

Just squinted at the text of the brochure. The last sentence in the first paragraph reads, "At the present stage of development, the car is in mockup condition." That is to say, when they printed the brochure, the car did not actually work, and it probably never did, since nobody has ever heard of this thing, so I suspect development did not get any farther than the mockup.

However, this is really nothing more than an assumption. GM's never really touted it's hybrid heritage past the HX3, so who knows how far this went?

What you're now experiencing is the frustration that automotive scholars have with GM's history. They don't tout it prominently, nor are they overly willing to share for academic purposes, and as such, much of the innovation of the company's past days are lost and unknown.

However, I can say that there was a running hybrid in '69. I've got sources that support it, and even the beginning of that brochure from eBay does too.

It mentions that there were three cars built with advanced powerplant designs by GM Styling Staff. These were the XP512 series of microcars built in '69 for Transpo '72. There was a running variant with a gas-electric powertrain.



(Source= "Cars That Never Were"; Auto Editors of Consumers' Guide. (c)1994. Pgs. 118-119)

3 XP512 cars were built; one was full-electric (XP512E), one was a gas-electric hybrid (XP512H), and one was a standard gas-engined variant (XP512). The three-wheeled commuter concept was called the XP511; I've no details on it's powertrain as of date.



The hybrid 512 was the only variant of the 512 that sported a different body (no front lamps), but much of it's underpinnings are virtually identical.
(Source = "The Complete Book of Electric Vehicles". Sheldon R. Shacket. (C) 1979. Domus Books)

According to the above book,...

The hybrid 512 used a gasoline engine and electric motor combination. Electric drive was used zero to 10 mph (16 km); at speeds of 10-13 mph, both powerplants operated together. At speeds greater than 13 mph (21 km), the gasoline engine was used exclusively.

The gasoline engine was a 2-cylinder, 11.7 cubic inch (195 cc) displacement variety of a rather inefficient design. Attempts had been made to modify the engine by increasing the compression ratio, but the unit would not withstand the excess power.

The 90-volt, 20 ampere alternator was belt-driven at engine speed to recharge the battery, or conventional 115-volt AC outlets could be used. The constant-speed fuel economy was 45-50 miles per gallon (19.5 to 21.2 km/l). In the electric mode, the range and speed varied from 5.2 miles (8.3 km) at 30 mph, to 9 miles (1.4 km) at 10 mph (16 km).

Unfortuately, more than one acceleration run every 2.5 miles (4 km) would result in battery depletion.

In fact, the tip speed of the electric was 45 mph (72 km/hr), and the top speed of the hybrid was only 40 mph (64 km/hr). The electric was also faster in acceleration.

This vehicle was experimental and cannot be considered the culmination of high technology.

Wow. Very understandable why these didn't make it. But interesting that it was indeed a plug-in hybrid.

From what the "Cars That Never Were" book said, it looks like XP-883 was shown at Transpo '72, as well. My guess was this was really a re-packaging and further development of the 512 Hybrid mechanicals into a more conservative and useful vehicle. While the wheels and hubs, and potentially, wheelbase look virtually identical to the 512 H, it did move all powertrain up front to conserve interior space, as well as it eliminated the single front-mounted entry way.

I also think this to be the case as the GM512 is reported as having an overall length of 86.3 inches, and a width of 56 inches. The brochure shows XP-883 as having a width of 57 inches, although it is almost 20 some odd inches longer.

The rest that follows is for the transportation-history buffs, particuarly regarding some of the alt-propulsion GM prototypes I cited in an earlier posting. Those who want to argue semantics of Toyota Vs. GM as innovators may just want to skip this altogether.



In regards to the ElectroVan mentioned earlier, here's a cutaway courtesy of the Electric Cars book mentioned above:

The book also sheds more light on the project:

The 1966 GMC HandiVan which was converted to produce the ElectroVan utilized a fuel cell system. The hydrogen-oxygen fuel cells used were extremely bulky and required that a hydrogen and oxygen tank be fitted into the back of the van. Basically, motor and controlls were the same as the ElectroVair II.

The illustration shows the complexity of the first fuel-cell-powered van ever to be built. The 7,100 lb. (3219 kg) Electro Van powered by a 125 hp AC motor, had a top speed of 70 mph (112 km/hr) and a range of 100 to 150 miles (161 to 241 km).

Among the problems encountered by GM with the ElectroVan were heavy weight and large volume, short lifetime, costly components and materials, complicated and lengthy start-up and shut-down procedures, gas bleeds and gas leaks, complexity of the three sparate fluid systems (electrolyte, hydrogen, and oxygen), a long list of safety problems, possible collision hazards, hydrogen leaks, electrolyte leaks, high voltages, and so on. Perhaps this is why we see very little fuel cell research activity for electric vehicles. The system is too expensive and complicated.

Here's a shot and diagram of the 512 Electric:



And, last but not least, a shot of the neat-looking ElectroVette.



The write-up on this car is as follows:

The Electrovette is the first of a new series of electric test cars produced by the General Motors Corp. This experimental prototype uses twenty 12-volt maintenance-free batteries weighing 920 lbs (417 kg) which are carried in the rear seat compartment. The suspension system has been re-engineered to handle the additional weight. The two passenger sedan weighs 2,950 lbs (1338 kg) and has a top speed of 53 mph (85 km/hr). Acceleration is zero to 30 mph (48 km/hr) in 8.2 seconds. The range using lead-acid batteries is 50 miles (80 km) at 30 mph (48 km/hr). (This is about the same distance as a normal Chevette can travel on one gallon of gasoline.) Zinc-nickel oxide batteries being developed by General Motors that could double the range may be available in the near future. GM lithium/ iron sulfide batteries which are smaller, lighter, and more powerful may be 10-15 years down the road, unless technological breakthroughs can shorten the timespan. Electrovette uses an on-board computer which is a control signal processor and the "brain" of the system.

And for those of you who have a fetish for some of those funky '70's transportation designs that never really made it, here's some photos of rail-related displays that also were shown at Transpo '72:

http://thejoekorner.quuxuum.org/transpo72/index.html

I'm starting to think the most conservative product introduction at that show was the GM TZE Motorhome...