UPDATE 6/21!: GM Cutting Another Division?

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by eaton53

I don't think anyone really cares.
Most Americans will risk poisoning their own kids if it means they can get cheap toys...

True enough - so far.

You know I have yet to see even a back of the envelope presentation with numbers as to how further consolidation nets GM a more favorable position than keeping them all. The 'assumption' seems to be 'somewhere down the road' - and the main problem is that distance in between.

The only caveat is.... where exactly is this 'economy' going - short, medium, and longterm.

I think you'll see oil prices experience a break after the election regardless of what happens between now and then.

The problem is that everything else is so weak - it may not matter.

One thing for sure - things got 'extra' spooky around the 20th of MAY.

So if the worst is in fact coming or expected then maybe.

Still think there are some out of the box options even with that.

[Buickman]

there is to be a broadcast to all dealers this Monday at 1:00. big news or a Fourth of July Firesale?

we really don't need to get rid of any brands, just bring them back to life. what else but downturn could you expect killing so many great nameplates and doing such disastrous marketing? this thing would be so easy to fix it's ridiculous. that's not what Red Ink Rick wants though as can be seen by what has to be intentionally driving this comapny down. no one could be as stupid as to keep doing the same things and expecting different results.

[63GrandSport001]

Honestly kill GMC, all they make are trucks and SUVs and all of them badge jobs anyways and those are two markets that are dying right now.

And moving Saturn in to replace GMC would also make a ton of since, you would replace the GMCs with Saturn which should give them a sales boost and probably remove the need for a Pontiac G5 based Delta car. This will also give people more places to puchase Saturn vehicles as well so its a win win situation for them all if you ask me.

[Gagarin]

Things were looking so exciting in 2005... RWD Pontiac, Saturn getting re-booted, the Buick concepts...

[63GrandSport001]

Originally Posted by Buickman

there is to be a broadcast to all dealers this Monday at 1:00. big news or a Fourth of July Firesale?

we really don't need to get rid of any brands, just bring them back to life. what else but downturn could you expect killing so many great nameplates and doing such disastrous marketing? this thing would be so easy to fix it's ridiculous. that's not what Red Ink Rick wants though as can be seen by what has to be intentionally driving this comapny down. no one could be as stupid as to keep doing the same things and expecting different results.

For the First time I can see that Rick is very bad for GM and seriously needs to go........

Sadly I think that GM is at a point where they have to make a serious move like this because things were allowed to get as bad as it has.

When they pushed up the GMt-900s I thought that this was to buy them more time (like a year or two) before they can have some substantial cars on the market. However they only brought out a few good cars when they really needed to bring out some sub compact and compacts that are really great. the 2010 time frame for good cars should have been 2008 instead but Gm failed here. This is what happens when you put all of your eggs in one basket.....

[ronald mcretard]

Originally Posted by NationsKappatol

So, I lurk far more than I post, and here is what I propose, since we are arm-chair QB's...

Since they are thinking of cutting GMC and Pontiac, cut them both. Expand Buick...I really think it has a lot of potential. Combine Buick dealers with Saturn dealers to give Saturn the exposure it needs. Get us a competitive Astra, keep the Sky, add a two-mode VUE, dump the Aura and Outlook. Buick will have the Enclave, the new, hopefully amazing LaCrosse, and more on the way.

Combine Caddy With Saab.

Sell Hummer.

Entry Level With Full Line:
Chevrolet (including micro-cars, 2-mode, and Volt)

Mid-Level: Benchmark of Customer Service
Buick - Saturn

Ultra-Luxury: Saab as niche FWD Lux, Caddilac as RWD lux
Cadillac - Saab


This is coming from a pontiac lover and Solstice Owner. This, I think is the way to survive.

That sounds good to me... maybe you should post more often!

[civilzues]

get your G8 while you can.

[NationsKappatol]

Originally Posted by ronald mcretard

That sounds good to me... maybe you should post more often!

thanks, Ronald. This model essentially eliminates overlap. Also, they can continue with buyouts and plant closings. We need to get to profitability, not market share. In my model, Chevy can continue to leverage GMDAT, Buick can leverage China Buick, Saturn can leverage Opel, Saab is already global, and Cadillac is truly the American luxury brand.

Streamlined world operations, no overlap, and targeted demographics in each store. No payouts to BPG Dealers since they will add Saturn.

Just thoughts...though I am probably naive to a lot of business realities that make this improbable...

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by civilzues

get your G8 while you can.

For all we know, if Pontiac is killed, the G8 will just get Chevy badges slapped on and "Impala" written on the back.

[fbg6coupe]

GM's biggest mistake was launching Saturn in the first place. It stretched itself too thin.

I think Pontiacs are far better cars than Saturns. I test drove an Aura, and damn, that thing is harsh on bumps... And as far as style, nothing in GM's portfolio is as sexy as Pontiacs. My G6 Coupe still gets looks, and G8 is hot.

I say get rid of GMC and Hummer. GMC vehicles can be rebadged as Chevys and Saturns. Saab should be discontinued in the US. Keep it in Europe like Opel.

Pontiacs need better fuel economy and more luxurious interiors. They need to drop the G5 and Vibe, or give them decent performance engines. They should also go back to the nameplates that mean something...

If it were up to me I would completely get rid of Saturn. It really has no place, it isn't the import fighter, GM thinks it is. Besides all their brands should be competing with imports!

They could incorporate Saturns into a new Pontiac line-up..

The Astra - with a more powerful engine, to replace the Vibe AND G5 (no more Chevy twins please)

The Aura and G6 could be merged. Imagine a new G6 with an Aura-type interior...

The Outlook is already overlapping with 3 others in the GM family.

Pontiac should be RWD and include:

Solstice
Astra-type replacement for the Vibe & G5, and call it a Fiero or something...
A NEW G6
G8 should be renamed GTO.

Pontiac is salvageable and has history. To can it in favor of Saturn or Saab in the US is stupid. And despite all the doom and gloom, Pontiacs are all over the streets! People are buying them...

[AMERICA 123]

Awww, screw it - go for broke.

Just beg, borrow steal whats needed and do a radicalectomy on new product development - ie 'about' twice as fast as originally planned - without dropping a single brand.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Awww, screw it - go for broke.

Just beg, borrow steal whats needed and do a radicalectomy on new product development - ie 'about' twice as fast as originally planned - without dropping a single brand.

dead straight, and as important...CHANGE THE MARKETING!

[tholland]

Originally Posted by TaHoE

Well then looking at the update: Goodbye Pontiac.

Please don't be right.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by Buickman

dead straight, and as important...CHANGE THE MARKETING!

Agreed.

Thought - think thats coming anyway ????

[Minnesota Nice]

It wouldn't surprise me if they killed Pontiac. Whoever is in charge of the dying division is obviously asleep at the wheel and has been for years.

The Solstice and G8 are nice cars, but both are heavily niche market cars. I doubt people are lining up outside to buy either cars, especially with the way money and gas are these days.

And given they are bringing the Pursuit over as the UBER COOL FUN PONTIAC IS CAR G3, I see Pontiac's days as being numbered. Probably just trying to milk all the money out of it that they can.