UAW head says that unions aren't to blame for Detroit's problems

[fp115]

Originally Posted by BGH

1) That's not the issue.
2) Not completely accurate.

First point i was discussing over the past several years toyota has been making money while GM has been struggling and its operations have not made money.

And Toyota is about 75 years old and his highly unionized in Japan. All those legacy costs you keep talking about could not have come before Toyota started as those people would be dead by now. So that's not much of an excuse.

2) The loss does not include interest rate swaps and vehicles shipped from Japan, so that means all those high margin lexus are not included in the number. Include those and i'm sure Toyota would have at least broke even.

And last I checked GM was still an International company. And all its divisions lost money, and those include areas without legacy costs.

And another note on Ford. Those numbers do not include Ford's line of credits, and the fact it will be spending less.

Toyota assembly workers in Japan are making 15-30 cents per hour. UAW workers make on average $25 per hour, CAW workers make an average of $38 per hour. UAW forces GM to pay for health care, Toyota's union does not.

GM is profitable again in nearly all regions but North America.

[zete]

Originally Posted by BGH

1) That's not the issue.
2) Not completely accurate.

First point i was discussing over the past several years toyota has been making money while GM has been struggling and its operations have not made money.

And Toyota is about 75 years old and his highly unionized in Japan. All those legacy costs you keep talking about could not have come before Toyota started as those people would be dead by now. So that's not much of an excuse.

2) The loss does not include interest rate swaps and vehicles shipped from Japan, so that means all those high margin lexus are not included in the number. Include those and i'm sure Toyota would have at least broke even.

And last I checked GM was still an International company. And all its divisions lost money, and those include areas without legacy costs.

And another note on Ford. Those numbers do not include Ford's line of credits, and the fact it will be spending less.

Pardon? Japan has universal healthcare. Thus healthcare costs is borne by all the people of Japan and not by individual corporations.

But that doesn't matter. The point is IN THE UNITED STATES the legacy costs of being here matters. Toyota has only had factories in the US for a short while and does not have the legacy costs that GM, Ford, and Chrysler do. That is a simple fact. Thus, GM NA has 500k - 600k retirees to whom they owe pensions and healthcare benefits. Toyota NA has nearly no retirees and yet LOST MONEY without those massive legacy costs! Think about that fact.

And last time I checked, Toyota provides numbers as a whole, not for just Toyota as a brand. Lexus' numbers are subsumed within Toyota Corporation's numbers since there is no Lexus Corporation. Much like GM doesn't slice out each division's balance sheet here in NA.

Toyota has LOST MONEY the past 6 months. I fail to see why you refuse to accept this fact since Toyota announced this fact themselves. It's not like I'm selectively picking numbers, those are Toyota's numbers.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by fp115

Toyota assembly workers in Japan are making 15-30 cents per hour. UAW workers make on average $25 per hour, CAW workers make an average of $38 per hour. UAW forces GM to pay for health care, Toyota's union does not.

Dude this post is a joke right... Has GM management told you to just make sh|t up and see what sticks...

Toyota assembly workers make 30 cents an hours WTF... Everyone knows the minimum wage in Japan is about $6.50... Time to run up the flag again... A quick google shows that Japanese assembly workers make at least $16-20 per hour.

Originally Posted by fp115

GM is profitable again in nearly all regions but North America.

GM is NOT profitable in Europe, North America, Asia or South Pacific

Lets run this down for our readers... Direct to you from GM's own web site... 2008 3rd Quarter results..
GMNA -2.3 Billion
GM Europe -1.0 Billion
GM Asia Pacific -6 Million
GM Latin America 500 Million
GMAC - 2.5 Billion

[fp115]

Yeah you are right, guess everyone is wrong about GM being one of the most profitable businesses in Asia Guess GM is also not profitable in the middle east, Latin America,... GM is profitable in 14 of 16 sales areas.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by fp115

Yeah you are right, guess everyone is wrong about GM being one of the most profitable businesses in Asia Guess GM is also not profitable in the middle east, Latin America,... GM is profitable in 14 of 16 sales areas.

Yes! Anyone who tells you that GM is making a profit on ANYTHING... ANYWHERE is probably wrong...

Of course not counting all of those pesky "paper" only losses... that don't count

[Cdesign]

Originally Posted by W.A.F.U.

It must be nice to be UAW. You're entitled to everything and when something goes wrong, it's never your fault.

That pretty much sums it up.

They are not entirely to blame, but they sure did contribute over the years.

[RamJet502]

Originally Posted by fp115

Yeah you are right, guess everyone is wrong about GM being one of the most profitable businesses in Asia Guess GM is also not profitable in the middle east, Latin America,... GM is profitable in 14 of 16 sales areas.

Even Wagoner says that the NA market is key for GM. Those 2 of 16 sales areas that they are not profitable in make or break the company.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

Even Wagoner says that the NA market is key for GM. Those 2 of 16 sales areas that they are not profitable in make or break the company.

Yep and I am fully aware, but soon Asia will be the huge profit maker for GM.

[kws6000]

Originally Posted by Cdesign

That pretty much sums it up.

They are not entirely to blame, but they sure did contribute over the years.

The uaw is a major part of the problem.If the detroit three survive,Id like to see the union crushed.

[lineworker]

How does my wages effect the mortgage meltdown that has been going on for a couple years now and the financial meltdown of banks and walll st. and the inability for any type of financing? Why do the guys on the bottom of the ladder always get blamed for the worlds problems? Thats right it the UAW's fault for the failing US economy.

[mk1700]

Originally Posted by MrCritical

Compare GM's benefit/retirement costs to Honda/Toyota/Nissan, and then tell me who's to blame.

I agree!!!!
The UAW are killing GM!!!!!

[kpc655]

Originally Posted by zete

Pardon? Japan has universal healthcare. Thus healthcare costs is borne by all the people of Japan and not by individual corporations.

But that doesn't matter. The point is IN THE UNITED STATES the legacy costs of being here matters. Toyota has only had factories in the US for a short while and does not have the legacy costs that GM, Ford, and Chrysler do. That is a simple fact. Thus, GM NA has 500k - 600k retirees to whom they owe pensions and healthcare benefits. Toyota NA has nearly no retirees and yet LOST MONEY without those massive legacy costs! Think about that fact.

And last time I checked, Toyota provides numbers as a whole, not for just Toyota as a brand. Lexus' numbers are subsumed within Toyota Corporation's numbers since there is no Lexus Corporation. Much like GM doesn't slice out each division's balance sheet here in NA.

Toyota has LOST MONEY the past 6 months. I fail to see why you refuse to accept this fact since Toyota announced this fact themselves. It's not like I'm selectively picking numbers, those are Toyota's numbers.

Japan has universal healthcare...but US plants of foreign companies don't.