UAW head says that unions aren't to blame for Detroit's problems

[Blair1955]

What about the VEBA? If GM makes it till 2010 won't the health care cost for the retires (and maybe active) come off their books? Won’t this make GM more completive with the transplants?

Blair

[BGH]

Wagoner says its not his fault
UAW says its no their fault.
It's all the markets fault.

Toyota, Nissan/Renault, Honda, Mazda, Mercedes, BMW, VW, Hyundai, Suzuki, Fiat, and to a lesser extent Ford are all expect to make it through this recession, along with a host of other companies.

Clearly some companies are doing business better. Not accepting this fact will just lead to more problems.

Ford realized the Toyota way of doing things was better and is changing to replicate it. GM which shares a plant with Toyota and has a direct view still refuses to accept their their ways of doing things.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by BGH

Wagoner says its not his fault
UAW says its no their fault.
It's all the markets fault.

Toyota, Nissan/Renault, Honda, Mazda, Mercedes, BMW, VW, Hyundai, Suzuki, Fiat, and to a lesser extent Ford are all expect to make it through this recession, along with a host of other companies.

Clearly some companies are doing business better. Not accepting this fact will just lead to more problems.

Ford realized the Toyota way of doing things was better and is changing to replicate it. GM which shares a plant with Toyota and has a direct view still refuses to accept their their ways of doing things.

If the economy doesn't improve, Toyota is expected to lose billions of dollars, possibly more than what GM is currently losing. Toyota's profits were down 80% so far this year.

Ford is also in the same boat as GM, where they are also being brought down month after month on legacy charges where the majority are union.

If the economy or the industry does get any worse, several companies would suffer tremendously, which would affect its employees and the economy in a much more negative manner. Ford hasn't yet been able to change any of the problems which are causing it to lose money. The only thing the company has done thus far is attempt to change product by bringing European ones to North America, that there isn't what I call a business changing decision.

[zete]

Originally Posted by fp115

If the economy doesn't improve, Toyota is expected to lose billions of dollars, possibly more than what GM is currently losing. Toyota's profits were down 80% so far this year.

Ford is also in the same boat as GM, where they are also being brought down month after month on legacy charges where the majority are union.

If the economy or the industry does get any worse, several companies would suffer tremendously, which would affect its employees and the economy in a much more negative manner. Ford hasn't yet been able to change any of the problems which are causing it to lose money. The only thing the company has done thus far is attempt to change product by bringing European ones to North America, that there isn't what I call a business changing decision.

Didn't Toyota NA lose money this year? I thought they posted a small loss in the US though a small profit worldwide.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by fp115

If the economy doesn't improve, Toyota is expected to lose billions of dollars, possibly more than what GM is currently losing.

Riiiiiight.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by zete

Didn't Toyota NA lose money this year? I thought they posted a small loss in the US though a small profit worldwide.

Its possible, but I have been seeing its global numbers lately. Last time I saw it was in September when its revenue was way down, but not to a point of losses.

[BGH]

Originally Posted by fp115

If the economy doesn't improve, Toyota is expected to lose billions of dollars, possibly more than what GM is currently losing. Toyota's profits were down 80% so far this year.

Ford is also in the same boat as GM, where they are also being brought down month after month on legacy charges where the majority are union.

If the economy or the industry does get any worse, several companies would suffer tremendously, which would affect its employees and the economy in a much more negative manner. Ford hasn't yet been able to change any of the problems which are causing it to lose money. The only thing the company has done thus far is attempt to change product by bringing European ones to North America, that there isn't what I call a business changing decision.

This is the thinking i was talking about. Toyota is trying stay profitable and who is expecting them to lose billions, you? GM on the other hand is simply trying to stay alive and may not make it to the summer. BIG DIFFERENCE

Ford won't have any cash problems for a while, Ford is currently reducing the number of options and streamlining global production into producing fewer variants and fewer models. Ford is rushing its compact cars over to the NA market, while GM is in no rush even though cobalt inventory levels have gone above 200 days.

Ford sold off several brands years ago to focus on the main part of its business. GM till today refuses to get rid of brands. Ford got a new CEO and management team and now has a changing corporate culture, unlike GM still has the same people in charge.

But yeah your right, no big changes.

Remember it was GM that went to the feds, not Ford.

GM has also got rid of leasing because GMAC took huge risks than huge losses so they had to sell their finance arm. I believe ford still has theirs. And still has the ability to determine Financing terms for its customers, GM is dependent on cerberus now.

Ford has moved to rush up new models, GM is delaying some.

But yeah, they're in the same boat.

[BGH]

And even with the massive drop in profit, Toyota is still expected to make 5.6 billion. While GM lost almost 3 bln last quarter.

But yeah, its not GM's management fault, its everyone else.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by BGH

This is the thinking i was talking about. Toyota is trying stay profitable and who is expecting them to lose billions, you? GM on the other hand is simply trying to stay alive and may not make it to the summer. BIG DIFFERENCE

Ford won't have any cash problems for a while, Ford is currently reducing the number of options and streamlining global production into producing fewer variants and fewer models. Ford is rushing its compact cars over to the NA market, while GM is in no rush even though cobalt inventory levels have gone above 200 days.

Ford sold off several brands years ago to focus on the main part of its business. GM till today refuses to get rid of brands. Ford got a new CEO and management team and now has a changing corporate culture, unlike GM still has the same people in charge.

But yeah your right, no big changes.

Remember it was GM that went to the feds, not Ford.

GM has also got rid of leasing because GMAC took huge risks than huge losses so they had to sell their finance arm. I believe ford still has theirs. And still has the ability to determine Financing terms for its customers, GM is dependent on cerberus now.

Ford has moved to rush up new models, GM is delaying some.

But yeah, they're in the same boat.

Wake up! You don't seem to understand at all what is going on right now do you?

Toyota is beyond trying to stay profitable, they are trying to turn to profitability again. The economy went down much faster than they expected it would with their planned changes in August. I've said this back in July that the economy is what will bring down Toyota, evidently this is exactly what is going on right now. The only way Toyota can help this is to either leave the NA market or to find new ways to get around import and export rates. Toyota is in a very serious predicament here to which they barely have any control over and would require some serious changes or hoping that the economy swaps over. If GM or Ford were to declare bankruptcy, chances are Toyota will fall quickly as well.

Hello! Ford does have cash problems. Both GM and Ford aren't expected to last till next year. Ford does not have the cash to rush vehicles over to North America, do not twist the truth, they are staying on the time line that has been setup for bringing those models over, they are expected to come here within the next year or two (some sooner). Their NA models would be different than Euro ones, for the simple fact that each consumer base wants something different. Ford is only starting to make important cuts now, some of which should be done by Jan 2009, that includes laying off 10% of all its employees. The changes have not been made, if they have why have they, with GM lost billions of dollars? Their fundamental changes are all focused on products and not so much on the backbone of the company.

[Generous Motors]

Originally Posted by Aprime

Remind me who bent over and took those in the ass?

Oh yeah, management with no long-term oversight.

OH SURE MATES THE TIMES ARE INDEED GOOD HERE HAVE THIS HEALTHCARE COVERAGE

Like the UAW gave the Companies alot of choice in the matter........Take this contract or lose tens of millions a day with a strike......oh ya the UAW is innocent in this.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Generous Motors

Like the UAW gave the Companies alot of choice in the matter........Take this contract or lose tens of millions a day with a strike......oh ya the UAW is innocent in this.

Actually he is right, Roger Smith gave away too much to the UAW in the past, taking away is very difficult to do. These past contract negotiations have went very well in the sense that they were allowed to take away from the UAW, such as healthcare and pay cuts.

[BGH]

Originally Posted by fp115

Wake up! You don't seem to understand at all what is going on right now do you?

Toyota is beyond trying to stay profitable, they are trying to turn to profitability again. The economy went down much faster than they expected it would with their planned changes in August. I've said this back in July that the economy is what will bring down Toyota, evidently this is exactly what is going on right now. The only way Toyota can help this is to either leave the NA market or to find new ways to get around import and export rates. Toyota is in a very serious predicament here to which they barely have any control over and would require some serious changes or hoping that the economy swaps over. If GM or Ford were to declare bankruptcy, chances are Toyota will fall quickly as well.

Hello! Ford does have cash problems. Both GM and Ford aren't expected to last till next year. Ford does not have the cash to rush vehicles over to North America, do not twist the truth, they are staying on the time line that has been setup for bringing those models over, they are expected to come here within the next year or two (some sooner). Their NA models would be different than Euro ones, for the simple fact that each consumer base wants something different. Ford is only starting to make important cuts now, some of which should be done by Jan 2009, that includes laying off 10% of all its employees. The changes have not been made, if they have why have they, with GM lost billions of dollars? Their fundamental changes are all focused on products and not so much on the backbone of the company.

Clearly you have no idea what your talking about.

Ford will have cash to last until 2010, GM will have problems making it to the summer time unless uncle sam gets involved.

And Toyota isn't losing money, that's just a flat out lie. They're expected to make over 5 billion this fiscal year while GM will probably lose 10 billion or more. During boom times GM was only making money of its finance arm while its automotive operations never turned a profit. And you want to make the argument GM management is in someway competant? Ford made sure it would have cash reserves months ago before credit markets froze. Ford has been selling of brands and simplifying its process. GM has done nothing.

[Generous Motors]

Why haven't the workers asked the Union to layoff people from its payrolls, or how about the management in the UAW take a 20% pay cut. The UAW is only for itself not the people working. Union dues are a form of extortion.

[Generous Motors]

Originally Posted by fp115

Actually he is right, Roger Smith gave away too much to the UAW in the past, taking away is very difficult to do. These past contract negotiations have went very well in the sense that they were allowed to take away from the UAW, such as healthcare and pay cuts.

Back to the choice Smith had.......take this contract or loose millions an hour in a strike. Thats not a choice.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by BGH

Clearly you have no idea what your talking about.

Ford will have cash to last until 2010, GM will have problems making it to the summer time unless uncle sam gets involved.

And Toyota isn't losing money, that's just a flat out lie. They're expected to make over 5 billion this fiscal year while GM will probably lose 10 billion or more. During boom times GM was only making money of its finance arm while its automotive operations never turned a profit. And you want to make the argument GM management is in someway competant? Ford made sure it would have cash reserves months ago before credit markets froze. Ford has been selling of brands and simplifying its process. GM has done nothing.

Ford has 7 months of cash remaining.
Go look up Toyota's revenue in the past months.
Look up GM's profit and how it was made in the 80 and 90s.
Look up GM's $22b structural changes and its timeline.

You have just proven that you know NOTHING about the industry and pray that you never get past the janitorial closet.