UAW head says that unions aren't to blame for Detroit's problems

[Exploder]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/16/u...oits-problems/

Ron Gettelfinger's basically saying "it's not our fault" when discussing the state of Detroit's automakers. Rather than admit that the UAW's plum labor agreements and contentious negotiations have contributed to the current gloomy situation, the United Auto Workers head man says that the economic downturn is to blame for everything, and that Congress should approve loans to the auto industry, saying "We cannot afford to...see this industry collapse."

[fp115]

Thats like saying the rain didn't cause the flooding, but the shape in which the land is formed caused it to flood.

[W.A.F.U.]

It must be nice to be UAW. You're entitled to everything and when something goes wrong, it's never your fault.

[zete]

Although everyone has some level of blame in this, you can't blame the UAW for assembling the uninspired, bean-countered-to-death, sea of plastic cars of the past. They were told "Build this" and they did. The fault for the crappy cars GM is still living down is courtesy of a bunch of guys in white shirts in GM, not the guys wearing blue collars on the line. Sure, some of them didn't take care in building the cars but there was way more to the problems than someone not tightening down a bolt. It was a problem endemic to GM. Blaming the UAW is silly. The crap product of the late 70s, 80s and most of the 90s (and some of the stuff of the 2000s) is solely the fault of the "geniuses" who designed and cheaped out the cars.

Quality control is not solely a line problem but a problem relating to part durability, fit and finish, etc.

And as many know on this forum I'm no fan of unions, but in this regard they're not the sole problem. Sticking up for themselves and saying we're not to blame is the right attitude. There's plenty of blame to go around and a slew of senior folks -- present and retired -- at GM need to stand up and admit they designed crap, they put in crappy, cheaped out interiors, and figured they could get away with it. Well, they couldn't and didn't.

Ultimately, I take Harry S Truman's view on this: The Buck Stops Here. And that is with the senior management, designers, accountants, etc. in GM in the past 30 years. You get what you sow. Or, to put this another way, the line workers at GM couldn't manufacture silk purses from the sow's ears they were provided.

[jkennedy293]

Afterwards, Gettelfinger announced that water is indeed dry.

[RamJet502]

Originally Posted by zete

Although everyone has some level of blame in this, you can't blame the UAW for assembling the uninspired, bean-countered-to-death, sea of plastic cars of the past.

Yes you can, who do you think made those cost cutting measures a necessity? Too much overhead and non-existent profit margins are a recipe for bankruptcy.

[63GrandSport001]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

Yes you can, who do you think made those cost cutting measures a necessity? Too much overhead and non-existent profit margins are a recipe for bankruptcy.

Or we can look at what actually happened and see that GM didn't want to make small cars and after loosing so many sales due to that rushed small cars to production that were not engineered properly.

Once your market share and sales are dropping you are going to run into capital problems union or no union its going to be the same.......

[MrCritical]

Compare GM's benefit/retirement costs to Honda/Toyota/Nissan, and then tell me who's to blame.

[Generous Motors]

The Union has a hand in the demise of the US Auto industry just as much as upper management and the bean counters. 1500 per domestic car in employee cost compared to 400 for the US built foreign vehicles, that isn't an issue upper management or the bean counters caused.

[Aprime]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

Yes you can, who do you think made those cost cutting measures a necessity? Too much overhead and non-existent profit margins are a recipe for bankruptcy.

Why blame a union that is taking all the uper-management's ****?

With the amount of concessions they've made over the last two decades I'd think you people would know better.

[Aprime]

Originally Posted by MrCritical

Compare GM's benefit/retirement costs to Honda/Toyota/Nissan, and then tell me who's to blame.

Remind me who bent over and took those in the ass?

Oh yeah, management with no long-term oversight.

OH SURE MATES THE TIMES ARE INDEED GOOD HERE HAVE THIS HEALTHCARE COVERAGE

[MrCritical]

"Brokeback Mountain" is another thread.

[zete]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

Yes you can, who do you think made those cost cutting measures a necessity? Too much overhead and non-existent profit margins are a recipe for bankruptcy.

I don't think GM's been losing cash since the 70s. No, this is a deep set problem. I remember looking at my friend's 84 RX7 and wondering why my 84 Trans Am had such a horrid interior in comparison. This cheaping out the interiors is an old old issue and not the UAW's fault. They didn't design the interior to be cheap. And GM was making money in the 80s. Remember, Perot was on the Board back then and recommended that GM buy Toyota -- GM was swimming in cash.

The overhead and non-existant profits are a recent result of the cascade of business decisions of the past. GM has learned, but the question is: Is it too late? I hope not, but at the same time GM has to get government aid. I fear for GM and the US economy in all this, but the current situation is due to poor product. If GM had great product through the 70s, 80s, 90s and today they'd not have lost half their marketshare and they'd still be able to afford to pay the UAW workers oodles of cash. It's the decline in their marketshare which seriously impacted their ability to meet their various contractual obligations to the UAW. GM did make those obligations when they figured they'd ALWAYS have 50% of the US market.

[W.A.F.U.]

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

Or we can look at what actually happened and see that GM didn't want to make small cars and after loosing so many sales due to that rushed small cars to production that were not engineered properly.

Sorry pal but if you want to look at what actually happened then look at the whole picture.

The profit margins on GM's small cars were slim because of reasons which include the cost of UAW building them. When you have slim profit margins, you look for ways to cut costs to break even. That is what has been actually happening over the last 20+ years.

[Gm_Tooler]

Originally Posted by zete

Ultimately, I take Harry S Truman's view on this: The Buck Stops Here. And that is with the senior management, designers, accountants, etc. in GM in the past 30 years. You get what you sow. Or, to put this another way, the line workers at GM couldn't manufacture silk purses from the sow's ears they were provided.

Single biggest problem in this country. The top 1-5% make all the decisions and try to deflect the blame. Unions, homeowners, dems, gop, whatever. It all makes me sick! I'd take almost anyone to replace Wagoner. Even that cranky old senatorial bast**d from Al.