Toyota, GM fight over rank

[cincygoblue]

Toyota, GM fight over rank

Whether the Scion should be counted is at heart of debate over top- selling U.S. brand.
Greg Bensinger / Bloomberg News
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...801030318/1148

Toyota Motor Corp.'s namesake division may declare itself the No. 1 auto brand in the U.S. for 2007. General Motors Corp.'s Chevrolet won't agree.

The dispute pivots on one question: How should sales of Toyota's Scion cars be tallied?

At stake are bragging rights that go with the top-selling line of autos in the U.S. Toyota's count includes Scion, cars that bear no Toyota badges and are marketed separately. By that measure, the Japanese automaker's lead through November sets the stage for a full-year win. Leave Scion out, and Chevy will likely retake the title when results are released today.

I don't think for a second that Scion is a Toyota vehicle; it's clearly its own brand," said Tom Libby, an analyst for J.D. Power and Associates. "You might as well count Pontiac vehicles as Chevrolet sales if you think Scion's a Toyota."

. . . (more including figures at link)

A Scion is a Toyota? Come on Toyota. You lost this round fair and square. Maybe next year.

Today's results:
Chevy: 2,265,641
Toyota: 2,291,648 but I haven't been able to find Scion broken out seperately. My guess Toyota won't do it, but the press sure will. Of course, Autoblog doesn't list Scion seperately. Anyone know where Toyota's press release and figures are? How did Tundra end-up too?

[86fleet]

Shouldn't we include Pontiac and Saturn in the Chevy total?

[mgescuro]

Scion should not be incorporated into the tally.

Here's a question... is Lexus included into the tally?

Also, Toyota has historically lumped Camry and Solara together, artificially boosting sales numbers (and hiding the slumping Solara sales).

Is Mini added to BMW?

[rueben44]

Just another case of Toyota wanting the number one spot so bad that the are willing to lie for it. Then they will come out with a statement that will say how they don't care about number one but rather profit margins. If they truly don't care then be honest!

[BurnOut]

I have to say that I am not surprised that Toyota is pulling this in light of the Camry/Solara thing (perhaps Chevrolet could call all their models Corvette something... like Chevrolet Corvette Impala, or Chevrolet Corvette Aveo; it would make Corvette the best selling car EVER!!).

Toyota is nothing if not a bunch of weasels when it comes to this sort of thing.

[Hitman1970]

I believe the figures for Scion discussed on another website were 130,000 for the year. The comparison between GEO being sold in Chevy dealerships was made, but I do not think Chevrolet counted GEOs in its sales figures in the 1990s.

I guess "Moving Forward" in Toyota-speak translates to "We lie about horsepower and any other statistics you let us get away with until caught."

[E. Haskell]

Toyota wants this so they can advertise "America's #1 selling brand" on all their commercials.

If Toyota claims to be #1, Chevrolet should also claim to be #1. If Toyota gets mad, they can file a lawsuit.

[E. Haskell]

Here are the stats from another thread....

SCION xA ..0014. 2,000 -99.3..... 9,547..32,603 -70.8

SCION xB ..3,785 3,330 13.7..... 45,834. 61,306 -25.5

SCION tC ..3,507 4,996 -29.8 .. 63,852.. 79,125 -19.6

SCION xD ..1,638 - - ................10,948 - -...............

Chevrolet should be #1 by about 100,000 units.

[Sal Collaziano]

Scion can be blended in with Toyotas TOTAL sales - but not in Toyota vs Chevy. Only Chevy counts for Chevy - so only Toyota should count for Toyota. I don't see why there's even a thought to this... Lexus and Scion are like Cadillac and Pontiac. This is silly..

[joemac]

Toyota looks silly attempting to claim the US #1 brand title by adding Scion. Matter of fact it reminds me of something my 6 year old would try to convince me of. "Daddy they are different but they are the same".

[1G6]

This is the same Toyota that doesn't care about such things. Right?

http://www.kentucky.com/454/story/275981.html

Ford corporate historian Bob Kreipke said it was the first time since 1931 that Ford wasn't second behind GM in U.S. sales.

Toyota spokesman Irv Miller said the distinction wasn't important to Toyota.

"We don't pay a lot of attention to rankings such as that," he said. "It's always nice to see the product is recognized and accepted by the consumer. The consumer's going to be the ultimate determining factor in who the winner is."

The people in that company are as full of crap as the cars they build.

[ksr]

It's sad that it's come to this, quibbling over a small number of Scion sales to determine whether Chevrolet or Toyota is #1 in the U.S.

Sadder still is that so many people I know almost act as though it's a great thing Toyota may be #1.

Whether you drive a Toyota, Chevy, or something else, it's simply not a good thing if you're an American when a foreign company is contending for the top spot in sales of a big-ticket item like automobiles.

[K-1]

Originally Posted by ksr

Whether you drive a Toyota, Chevy, or something else, it's simply not a good thing if you're an American when a foreign company is contending for the top spot in sales of a big-ticket item like automobiles.

Didn't you get the memo? Toyota's an American company now. They're also European and Australian.

[chakis24]

the sad thing is is that there will be people defending toyota so that they can say their camry is from the u.s. largest automaker, as if it was a good thing- even though toyota is blatantly in the wrong here. scion isnt even in the same dealership as toyota's, with toyota logic, b-p-g is one company then.

[K-1]

Originally Posted by chakis24

the sad thing is is that there will be people defending toyota so that they can say their camry is from the u.s. largest automaker, as if it was a good thing- even though toyota is blatantly in the wrong here. scion isnt even in the same dealership as toyota's, with toyota logic, b-p-g is one company then.

Actually, a majority of Toyota dealerships (2/3rds) have a Scion dealership onsite as well. It still doesn't make it part of Toyota though.