Test Driving the Fuel Cell: Chevrolet Equinox

[EricR42]

I don't have a science background, so I am hoping someone can address one concern I have regarding fast charging 100% battery-electric. Let's assume that a battery/ultracapacitor is developed that can go 100 miles on a charge. Let's also assume that it would ordinarily require several hours of charging, but can be quick charged in several minutes. Doesn't this mean that the several hours worth of charge needs to be blasted into the battery in those several minutes? Wouldn't that be (a) dangerous and (b) require a specialized (and expensive) device capable to inducing a massive charge in a short amount of time?

Again, I may be completely off-base and if so, I beg your indulgence.

- Eric

[AMERICA 123]

Wow - what a great thread.

The issues of the day - and the necessary economics etc for all the choices are best captured by two key concepts.

For the 'fuel' - 'wellhead' to wheel.

For the vehicle - cradle to grave.

Do this for all, and hydrogen's appeal becomes even stronger - goes right to the head of the class.

Yes cost and infrastructure still remain as surmountable issues..... and now appear more likely to possibly be solved at almost the same time as the never ending quest for a truly usable and profitable battery hybrid powertrain

Once you get past all the stuff designed to 'sell' battery hybrid powertrains you find ( pretty much ) every OEM recognizes that eventually hydrogen is the realistic, 'foreseeable' end point.

BTW, this includes Toyota.

So the question becomes when and how, and what kind of intermediary ie midterm solution or better, solutions should be pursued.

Obviously, a whole lot of money prefers some kind of battery equipped interim solution set.

What is not so obvious is that to make that 'work' they are willing to try and slow down and/or hold back everything else - including a justifiable attempt to accelerate hydrogen.


Here we sit with GM actually having had and continuing to do so - one of the finest and most promising hydrogen powered vehicle programs on the planet - but also one getting 'stuffed' ie not pushed forward.


Well, two observations on that - Japan is now committed to commercialization of hydrogen usage ie regular retail usage of a significant amount by 2015 - in Japan.

Two, Honda, IMO, has correctly sized up the real situation concerning hydrogen - and how shall we say - the 'inertia' that works to hold it back and they also very clearly are not going to wait for the infrastructure to be provided - they are going to 'do it' themselves.

From an old Honda press release - that's worth a look - some useful diagrams and pictures etc;

http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=4349

11.14.07

Hydrogen Infrastructure

Honda is moving ahead with research into hydrogen production and supply systems to help support the more widespread adoption of fuel cell vehicles.

Solar-powered Hydrogen Stations

Honda is conducting feasibility tests on its Solar-powered Hydrogen Station

Since 2001, Honda has operated an experimental solar-powered water electrolyzing hydrogen station at Honda R&D Americas in Torrance, California.

The station employs Honda's water electrolyzing module, and utilizes next-generation thin film solar cells developed by Honda Engineering.

Based on a highly efficient water-electrolyzing module, we have achieved a high-pressure hydrogen production efficiency of 52-66%.

Using the Honda-developed thin film made from a compound of copper, indium, gallium and selenium (CIGS) for the solar cells, Honda's next-generation refueling system has been made more environmentally responsible by reducing CO2 emissions during the production of the solar cells.

Home Energy Station

The experimental Home Energy Station - hydrogen refueling and cogeneration

The Home Energy Station, which generates hydrogen from natural gas, is designed to provide heat and electricity for the home through fuel cell cogeneration, and to supply fuel for a hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicle.


Honda began experimental operation of the Home Energy Station in 2003.

On the basis of research conducted in cooperation with technology partner Plug Power, Inc., refinements were subsequently incorporated into Home Energy Stations II and III that made it more compact and convenient. In 2007 Honda developed Home Energy Station IV - which is even better suited to home installation <and> began operating it experimentally.

Honda research into hydrogen production and supply systems for a future hydrogen-based society is ongoing.

Overview: Home Energy Station IV

Home Energy Station IV is designed to be more compact, more efficient, and less expensive than previous models - and therefore even more suitable for the average household.

The size has been reduced by 70% compared to the first generation, CO2 emissions for a household using the Home Energy Station would be 30% lower than those for an average household using a gasoline-engine car and commercial electricity and energy costs about 50% lower.

Home Energy Station IV configuration

Fuel cell vehicles require high-purity hydrogen. In addition to hydrogen, reformed gas created from natural gas contains some CO2 and N2.

Previous Home Energy Station systems were equipped with a separate purifier and fuel cell.

In Home Energy Station IV, these two components have been unified. The new system can switch from hydrogen refining to power generation, helping reduce size and improve efficiency.

Now depending on your point of view - and your portfolio this kind of thing is either highly desirable - or undesirable.

As an American citizen, it is more desirable than most realize.

Critically, it is decentralized a great deal in all the ways that matter.

Bottomline 'decentralized' energy / fuel production with solar, wind and tide and current, geo/hydro thermal etc is the way to go - and helps open the the door bigger and better for hydrogen fuel.

[AMERICA 123]

Here is the old thread with the info on Japan.

While America dithers with batteries Japan moves ahead - with hydrogen

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008...ishe.html#more

[E-Flex]

Originally Posted by EricR42

Let's assume that a battery/ultracapacitor is developed that can go 100 miles on a charge. Let's also assume that it would ordinarily require several hours of charging, but can be quick charged in several minutes. Doesn't this mean that the several hours worth of charge needs to be blasted into the battery in those several minutes?

"Several hours worth of charge" is a bad figure here. Producing and releasing high charges is no problem at all, it is even possible to create artificial lightning bolts. The main point here are the batteries that need to take those charges without burning down or even exploding.

Originally Posted by EricR42

Wouldn't that be (a) dangerous

Yes, high voltage electricity is dangerous, there is no way around it. However, it is kept under control very successful in in electric kitchen stoves or electric power (sub)stations, so I am optimistic one could find a way to control it when fastloading batteries.

Also gasoline is a dangerous substance, CNG and LPG are even more dangerous, and most dangerous of them all is hydrogen. Thus, I do not see a drawaback for electricity here.

Originally Posted by EricR42

and (b) require a specialized (and expensive) device capable to inducing a massive charge in a short amount of time?

This device will of course be specialised, like gas stations are specialised for filling conventional cars. But again, the very much bigger problem is the battery.