Still think we should rely on The Marketplace to meet America's energy needs?

[HoosierRon]

You corn ethanol haters really, really need to wake up.

Chinese firms bid for oil exploration in Iraq

BEIJING, July 4 -- China National Petroleum Corp, China Petrochemical Corp and two other Chinese companies will bid for oil and gas exploration rights in southeast Iraq as energy demand rises in the world's fastest-growing economy.

The two parents of PetroChina Co and China Petroleum & Chemical Corp, as well as China National Offshore Oil Corp and Sinochem Corp, have started to assess fields in Iraq, Zeng Xingqiu, Sinochem's chief geologist, told Bloomberg News Thursday.

China, which relies on imports for about half of its crude-oil needs, is seeking investment in overseas petroleum fields to satisfy growing energy demand from an economy that expanded 10.6 percent in the first quarter.

[ChevyRules]

We invaded that country not those damn Chinese people. Stay the hell out! That oil is ours!

[Old Dood]

Wake Up?
Good point!
We need to wake up to the FACT that The United Corporate States of America is not the Ruler of the world.

Why should China not be allowed access to oil in any market?
I remember being 'told' that we here in the States wanted China to become more capitalistic.
Are they not doing just that?

We were also told the 'story' about bringing Democracy to Iraq?
ie: Freedom, Free Markets, Free Peoples, oh and how the OIL would pay for the war.
Funny how the latter is not in the news cycle anymore...

Or is this part of the lie that is coming out that it is not Democracy in Iraq that is the goal but American Imperialism?

Corn is not the answer. Even in the short term.
New Technologies are the answer. Actually they are not so 'new'.
'They' have been sitting on them for decades because of the money and power to be gained by forcing us to purchase oil based products.

That is the real story. Those are the correct questions all Americans should be not just asking but demanding an answer to.

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by Old Dood

Wake Up?
Good point!
We need to wake up to the FACT that The United Corporate States of America is not the Ruler of the world.

Why should China not be allowed access to oil in any market?
I remember being 'told' that we here in the States wanted China to become more capitalistic.
Are they not doing just that?

We were also told the 'story' about bringing Democracy to Iraq?
ie: Freedom, Free Markets, Free Peoples, oh and how the OIL would pay for the war.
Funny how the latter is not in the news cycle anymore...

Or is this part of the lie that is coming out that it is not Democracy in Iraq that is the goal but American Imperialism?

Corn is not the answer. Even in the short term.
New Technologies are the answer. Actually they are not so 'new'.
'They' have been sitting on them for decades because of the money and power to be gained by forcing us to purchase oil based products.

That is the real story. Those are the correct questions all Americans should be not just asking but demanding an answer to.

I am not saying that China is not "entitled" to bid on Iraqi oil. To the contrary, it is. So in this Brave New World, America can compete against a country whose economy is skyrocketing and that puts the entire economic might of the nation in an organized fashion to get what it wants, or we can withdraw from that no-win fight and become energy self-sufficient.

America will produce 8 billion gallons of corn ethanol this year. It most certainly is PART of the answer. No one is "forcing" you to buy oil based products. Go buy a Flex Fuel Impala and start buying E85.

[Old Dood]

America will produce 8 billion gallons of corn ethanol this year. It most certainly is PART of the answer. No one is "forcing" you to buy oil based products. Go buy a Flex Fuel Impala and start buying E85.

First of all I apologize for misunderstanding you...my mistake.
(Never 'My Bad'...I can't stand that expression )

Gasoline is only a part of our oil based products.
All of our 'plastics' are based on oil.
Hell, I have a hard time opening a bag of cookies anymore since they made these 'new' oil based plastics....not to mention anything wrapped in that stronger then steel hard plastic shells they use on everything now.

I would never buy a flex-fuel car. No power, no decent mileage.
You end up paying the same amount in the long run.

There are other technologies that can be used to give us power for not just cars but our homes.
Magnetism is just one.

I know people do not 'want' to believe it but we are only showed X Amount of what is really out there in technology.

When I see Flat Screen TVs, Cell Phones, Computers, etc, etc, the list goes on and on....then we are still using 19th century technology to power our vehicles and to make many many products with....What is wrong with that picture?

To me: Corn is only a distraction from the real truth...
Lets break out the real technology. Let everyone prosper...not just the rich.

[BryceStrong]

Tell me if I'm off my rocker, but I see the both of you arguing your points with socialist slants. You, HoosierRon, with your protectionist jargon, and you, Old Dood, with your anti-corporate, "life's unfair" cries. The latter is too easy to refute but, HoosierRon, don't you think that American corporations - rather than the government - should be competing for energy with the Chinese?

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by BryceStrong

but, HoosierRon, don't you think that American corporations - rather than the government - should be competing for energy with the Chinese?

I don't think anyone (American government or American companies) should be competing with the Chinese government for Iraq's oil. Even if we win, we will pay so much that we lose.

I think American oil companies should be competing with each other for oil in America (ANWR, continental shelf, Rocky mountain shale), and they all should be competing with American ethanol companies for the American consumer's dollar. The government should promote cellulosic ethanol and algae biodiesel production facilities by doing nothing more than not taxing them.

If the Chinese and Indians want to get in a bidding war for Middle Eastern oil, let them.

[Ed Arcuri]

Oil is fungible.
Alll the oil in the world market affects the price of all oil in the world market. You can't put a serial number on it!
If the Chinese buy oil in Iraq, oil elsewhere becomes more available.
Our problem is that we are a net buyer of oil. Imagine the economic power we could have if we used our own resources, oil, coal, and ethanol, among others! It isn't the fault of the Iraqi's nor of the Chinese that we have a poor understanding of basic economics in this country. We continue to support people in public office who strangle our economy while offering lip service to the working man.
Having imagined that we are self-sufficent; now imagine our economic power should we find a way to become a net energy exporter. We could, you know.
Cheers,
Ed

[Old Dood]

Originally Posted by BryceStrong

Tell me if I'm off my rocker, but I see the both of you arguing your points with socialist slants. You, HoosierRon, with your protectionist jargon, and you, Old Dood, with your anti-corporate, "life's unfair" cries. The latter is too easy to refute but, HoosierRon, don't you think that American corporations - rather than the government - should be competing for energy with the Chinese?

Life's Unfair Cries??

No...I have nothing against corporations as a whole.
What I have a problem with is corporations having the same 'rights' that individuals are suppose to have.

Corporations were never meant to have any 'rights' in that way.
Business was always suppose to be 'in check' so it does not take over and run the government like it does today.

THAT was one of the main reasons we broke away from England in the first damn place.

Corporations were suppose to pay the taxes based on THEIR profits.
The People were never meant to pay taxes on THEIR labor.
BUT, corporations got THEIR way....now they are getting their just desserts.
Boo-Effin-hoo!

Allowing corporations to run amok like they have for 30+ years is the exact reason as to why we are in dire straits now.
It sure was not the Will of the People that did that.
Corporate greed is the culprit.

'Regulation' is not a dirty word. Oh it is to corporations. They scream bloody murder.
Corporations can make profits just fine with regulations plus, it PROTECTS the people from exactly what has been transpiring.

Phone companies ring a bell? They were DE-Regulated and we have worst service now then ever.
Even though we have better technologies now then before.
Plus, these corporations are forming back together just like in a Terminator movie.

I am for the People FIRST. Corporations like Cartman so eloquently puts it: "Can suck my balls'.

[racy]

Originally Posted by Old Dood

Wake Up?


Corn is not the answer. Even in the short term.

Please enlighted us then, to what the short term answer is. Since ethanol is already being produced, I believe it falls under the "working" category. Ethanol is not a theory, such as cheap wind or solar. The fact is, ethanol now and has for some time, been cheaper than its competing product, gasoline.

Where does solar, wind and hydrogen rank today?

[vcs2600]

Originally Posted by racy

The fact is, ethanol now and has for some time, been cheaper than its competing product, gasoline.

Only including massive taxpayer subsidies.

Also I don't get why this site allows certain posters to push their energy politics in the "Industry" section.

[racy]

Originally Posted by Ed Arcuri

Oil is fungible.
Alll the oil in the world market affects the price of all oil in the world market. You can't put a serial number on it!
If the Chinese buy oil in Iraq, oil elsewhere becomes more available.
Our problem is that we are a net buyer of oil. Imagine the economic power we could have if we used our own resources, oil, coal, and ethanol, among others! It isn't the fault of the Iraqi's nor of the Chinese that we have a poor understanding of basic economics in this country. We continue to support people in public office who strangle our economy while offering lip service to the working man.
Having imagined that we are self-sufficent; now imagine our economic power should we find a way to become a net energy exporter. We could, you know.
Cheers,
Ed

Hold on...the Chinese are not buying oil in Iraq. They are merely buying rights to drill and produce oil, which in turn will be sold on the oil commodity market - just like Exxon and BP.

[racy]

Originally Posted by vcs2600

Only including massive taxpayer subsidies.

Also I don't get why this site allows certain posters to push their energy politics in the "Industry" section.

Nope. Ethanol is still cheaper without the subsidies. Get with the times

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by Ed Arcuri

Oil is fungible.
Alll the oil in the world market affects the price of all oil in the world market. You can't put a serial number on it!
If the Chinese buy oil in Iraq, oil elsewhere becomes more available.
Our problem is that we are a net buyer of oil. Imagine the economic power we could have if we used our own resources, oil, coal, and ethanol, among others! It isn't the fault of the Iraqi's nor of the Chinese that we have a poor understanding of basic economics in this country. We continue to support people in public office who strangle our economy while offering lip service to the working man.
Having imagined that we are self-sufficent; now imagine our economic power should we find a way to become a net energy exporter. We could, you know.

There you go - the only real difference is whose the 'middleman' and gets the middleman's 'cut'.

As to the title question - Re: Still think we should rely on The Marketplace to meet America's energy needs?


One real answer with legs would be:

Yes, we should try for the first time a real free market driven choice and solution set - something we have never had fully - not even close.

[TJ95GAGT]

Wouldn't exploring for and finding oil by the Chinese firms just put more oil into the market?