A Simple Fact and a Stubborn Union

[Hurricane]

A Simple Fact and a Stubborn Union

By Warren Brown
Sunday, February 18, 2007; G02

Corporations are not eleemosynary institutions. They do not exist for the public's welfare. They are not churches. They are driven more by greed than altruism.

That is not a criticism. It's a fact. It's neither good nor bad. It is what it is.

Granted, it wasn't the UAW's idea to keep rolling out trucks -- and the wrong trucks at that, full-size pickups with underpowered V-6 engines -- when a lot of America was looking for fuel-efficient automobiles. It wasn't the UAW's idea to keep stockpiling those unwanted models until they had to be dumped on the marketplace at fire-sale prices.

But UAW members made those trucks, and they were paid handsomely for making them -- more handsomely than workers in Alabama are being paid for making hot-selling Hyundai Sonata cars, as handsomely as workers at Toyota's U.S. plants are being paid for making popular Camry cars and Tundra pickups, and as handsomely as employees of Honda in America are being paid for making fast-selling Civic and Accord automobiles.

Americans are buying Toyota cars made by Americans in America. Americans are buying Hyundai cars made by Americans in America. Americans are buying Honda cars, Nissan cars, Mercedes-Benz and BMW cars -- all made by Americans in America.

Chrysler's American losses are those Americans' gain. It has nothing to do with trade. It has everything to do with what is selling and what isn't, what is perceived as having value and what isn't. It also has much to do with the outstanding fact that Americans at those Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, BMW and Mercedes-Benz plants, for whatever reason, have seen no value in joining the UAW.

Again, it's business. It comes down to money. Consumers don't drive flags. They drive cars. If they believe a car has good value for dollar, then that is the car they buy. If they don't see that value, they don't buy. Their purchase decisions aren't based on what is good for the community, or the country, or the UAW. In that regard, they are much like corporations. They are in it for the money.

More at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...html?nav=lscc2

[guitarlix]

"Hot selling Hyundai Sonata cars"?

[ctaylorzl1]

Originally Posted by guitarlix

"Hot selling Hyundai Sonata cars"?

Ok, that might be a little strech, but the rest is SPOT ON, it really boggles my mind that the UAW still exists in this day and age, 30 years ago is was a different story in the auto industry, kinda like the labor unions, 70 years ago during the Great Depression they were a nessesity, but now they just create unfair wages for both the union & scab workers. I have a friend who is a union laborer, he is on a clean-up crew for a carpentry buisness, he pusses a broom and cleans up carpenters mess all day, and gets paid $22 a hour for it, just because it is union scale! How much of a load of BS is that? And he still complains about it! UAW workers are the same way, my GPa is a retired 35 year UAW worker at the GM truck plant in Indianapolis, he is so entitled that it is pitiful. He assums that everyone his age is as well off as he is, and dosent understand why some of his retired friends have post-retirement jobs. In all seriousness union workers have no idea of the real workforce, If the need to get another job, they go to the hall and they assign them to a different job, no searching, applying, any of the BS that comes with getting a new job. The union reeks of communism!

Sorry, I have strong feelings about the Union. Rant over!

[Ming]

I consider myself rather well-read, but I must admit that eleemosynary is not a word I recall having seen used in a news article like this. If I was a cynic I'd cry "dictionary discovery!" to Warren Brown. But perhaps my decade of living in Japan denied me of exposure to a word that is more commonly used than I might think.

Americans are buying Toyota cars made by Americans in America.

Its the old tired argument again...sigh. From purely a manufacturing standpoint? Yes. But who is really engineering the nuts and bolts of those Toyota cars? Where were the engines, transmissions and platforms designed? In some art studio in California, or in the white collar engineering bowels of an overtime-happy office in Japan?

If losing our ability to engineer cars from the ground up doesn't matter to Americans, then fine. But don't just make it an "its built here, stupid!" argument.

[uboys]

The union guys will be apoplectic these next few months.

[JonathanRohr]

Originally Posted by ctaylorzl1

Ok, that might be a little strech, but the rest is SPOT ON, it really boggles my mind that the UAW still exists in this day and age, 30 years ago is was a different story in the auto industry, kinda like the labor unions, 70 years ago during the Great Depression they were a nessesity, but now they just create unfair wages for both the union & scab workers. I have a friend who is a union laborer, he is on a clean-up crew for a carpentry buisness, he pusses a broom and cleans up carpenters mess all day, and gets paid $22 a hour for it, just because it is union scale! How much of a load of BS is that? And he still complains about it! UAW workers are the same way, my GPa is a retired 35 year UAW worker at the GM truck plant in Indianapolis, he is so entitled that it is pitiful. He assums that everyone his age is as well off as he is, and dosent understand why some of his retired friends have post-retirement jobs. In all seriousness union workers have no idea of the real workforce, If the need to get another job, they go to the hall and they assign them to a different job, no searching, applying, any of the BS that comes with getting a new job. The union reeks of communism!

Sorry, I have strong feelings about the Union. Rant over!

I agree.. I often feel that unions are just holding the corporations hostage.

It seems as though GM only exsists to keep the dealers and unioners fed, not to achieve its own goals.

I cant believe GM wouldve ever been so stupid to sign something saying that they HAVE to hire union workers. All the foreign companies here are laughing all the way to the bank about it. And so are their workers, they dont have to pay union dues!

[red_xtreme95]

I do think the UAW is killing our American auto industry. they need to kill the contracts and hire employees and give them good benifits and pay. I would love to have every doctors visit and and drug paid for 100% but most companys would go under from that. i just want GM to be #1 and my car to come from the USA. i think the UAW will end that

[68CoupeDeVille]

Originally Posted by Ming

I consider myself rather well-read, but I must admit that eleemosynary is not a word I recall having seen used in a news article like this. If I was a cynic I'd cry "dictionary discovery!" to Warren Brown.

I don't think it's all that common either and I did have to look it up.

el·ee·mos·y·nar·y [el-uh-mos-uh-ner-ee, -moz-, el-ee-uh-]
–adjective
1. of or pertaining to alms, charity, or charitable donations; charitable.
2. derived from or provided by charity.
3. dependent on or supported by charity: an eleemosynary educational institution.

[Smashing1]

Originally Posted by Ming

I consider myself rather well-read, but I must admit that eleemosynary is not a word I recall having seen used in a news article like this. If I was a cynic I'd cry "dictionary discovery!" to Warren Brown. But perhaps my decade of living in Japan denied me of exposure to a word that is more commonly used than I might think.

Don't be too hard on yourself. First thing I did when I read that word was to check it at dictionary.com. heh Someone must have gotten a word of the day calendar for Christmas.

I agree though, not engineered in America = not American. It's pretty simple from my point of view.

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by JonathanRohr

I agree.. I often feel that unions are just holding the corporations hostage.

Just to add to this ---- Did you read what UAW Prez Ron Gettlefinger said about Ford a few days back? He said that they were in good shape and flush with cash --- he says that, without taking into account that "flush with cash" is all loans that Mullaly brokered which basicaly mortgaged the entire company. So that "flush-ness" is borrowed money.

Think about this -- they were in such dire shape that they had to put the entire company on the line to get enough funding to fuel the turn around. If they screw up the banks will own them and the new "owners" (the banks) might take an even firmer stand with the UAW. It would be in Ron's better interest to recognize this fact and understand that "flush with cash" doesn't mean "deep pockets" but is a life-line.

This kinda blind-sightedness is what scares me when it comes to negotiations. You can't spend it b/c you have it -- if you spend it and it takes away from an adequate recovery, then you're basically putting off the doom on the doorstep for tomorrow's workers. It needs to be considered before negotiating in good faith.

Its this kinda crap (for lack of a better term) that really gets to me.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Geotpf]

Originally Posted by Ming

I consider myself rather well-read, but I must admit that eleemosynary is not a word I recall having seen used in a news article like this. If I was a cynic I'd cry "dictionary discovery!" to Warren Brown. But perhaps my decade of living in Japan denied me of exposure to a word that is more commonly used than I might think.


Its the old tired argument again...sigh. From purely a manufacturing standpoint? Yes. But who is really engineering the nuts and bolts of those Toyota cars? Where were the engines, transmissions and platforms designed? In some art studio in California, or in the white collar engineering bowels of an overtime-happy office in Japan?

If losing our ability to engineer cars from the ground up doesn't matter to Americans, then fine. But don't just make it an "its built here, stupid!" argument.

There would be some logic to your point if the article was talking about Ford or GM. But it's not. It's talking about German-owned Chrysler. A Dodge truck or Chrysler PT Cruiser is as much of a "foreign" vehicle as a Toyota Avalon or Sienna or Tundra (all US-specific models, designed and built in America for the US market specifically).

[Ming]

Originally Posted by Geotpf

There would be some logic to your point if the article was talking about Ford or GM. But it's not. It's talking about German-owned Chrysler. A Dodge truck or Chrysler PT Cruiser is as much of a "foreign" vehicle as a Toyota Avalon or Sienna or Tundra (all US-specific models, designed and built in America for the US market specifically).

True indeed. But I've seen that argument so many times I think the press is starting to believe it applies in all cases.

[tntwit]

Originally Posted by Smashing1

I agree though, not engineered in America = not American. It's pretty simple from my point of view.

How does the Ford Fusion fit into that philosophy? It is made in Mexico, on a Mazda chassis (yes, I am aware of the Ford/Mazda relationship), and has a rather low domestic content. I read it is only 29% US content. I want to believe it is better to buy this than a Toyota made in Kentucky with a much higher US content, but it doesn't seem to add up. Just wanted to know what others thought.

[rsbaker]

Originally Posted by Hurricane

More at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...html?nav=lscc2

America will cease to be a great nation if all of our manufacturing is owned by other countries. I for one do not want to continue handing over control of our economy and our fate to foreign nations. If GM Ford and Chrysler falter, It is a sign that this Nation is faltering. All of the foreign companies beneifited for decades from protected home markets and now that USA Inc. is on the ropes people like you are so willing to just let them die.

I am an American and want to see American owned and operated companies do well in America, for if they do well, then Americans do well and if all Americans do well ,then we can be sure that our country will do well. The Japanese help and protect their industry so do the Chinese and the Koreans and so do the Europeans. Why Can't My government help and protect, in a constructive way, American Industry as well?

[trboxcar]

QUOTE: Corporations are not eleemosynary?? institutions. They do not exist for the public's welfare. They are not churches. They are driven more by greed than altruism.

So we're all so weak that we have to settle for corporations that are only for the benefit of a select few shareholders? This in NOT what corporations were supposed to be. In exchange for limited personal liability that we, the people, give them, they're supposed to be responsible in several ways: yup, to shareholders AND also to do the right thing for we, the people.

If this isn't the case, then we, the people, made a trade in which we got nothing.

We gotta get stronger and realize we (including corporations) can walk and chew gum and the same time--make profits AND do important stuff that improves the way we live. It ain't that hard.