Should Oil Be Cheap?

[I-Love-Pontiac]

Originally Posted by 1G6

Since when does the prospect of better Tahoe sales constitute a bad thing?

I was just using the Tahoe as an example. Lower prices means more suv sales which means less fuel for the rest of us. I love SUVs, but with the way things look with oil they just seem incredibly irresponsible.

[Dukeboy01]

My gut feeling is that the less the government has to do with the price of anything, the better off we all are in the long run. "That government which is best, governs least" and all that.

[Cortazzo]

Oil shouldn't be 'cheap' in so much as the price we pay at the pump isn't the total cost. We are required to keep the middle east somewhat stable with our military in order to have a ready supply of crude for the market, that isn't incorporated into the cost of oil, neither is any environmental impact. Because oil is such a volatile global commodity, it would be in our interests to slowly reduce our usage systematically. If this is done through a slowly increasing gas tax, the proceeds of which would only go towards energy infrastructure investment, i think it might be a smart move.

[iamkjk]

[quote=kodos78;1466151]It's fun watching the statists and nannies come out in this thread. Most of them do not realize they advocate suppression of free will and freedom in general.

THEY hate "suburban sprawl", "big box stores", etc...

Why does their opinion count more than mine or anyone else's? Sure I don't care for Toyotas and most Japanese cars, but I would NEVER advocate taxing them separately.

Just because you or I dislike something doesn't mean that we can meddle with it through the power of government. A free society is not meant to be a comfortable place to live all the time. It's not meant to coddle its citizens, it's not meant to take care of their every whim.

A free society however lets people make their own choices, to get out of their way when they want to do something.

QUOTE]

Free society? Then let's eliminate traffic signals - I should be able to drive through intersections any way I want. I am free. Let's eliminate food safety laws, put lead back in paint etc. I should be able to scream FIRE in a crowded movie theater. I think you get my point.

Government's job is to balance our freedoms, and the greed of capitalism against what is in the country's long range good. Consuming unlimited amounts of gas in not in our long range best interest. American's bizarre need to consume unnecessary stuff (at big box stores for example) is only making China rich and a future threat. I don't really want transfer my wealth to China or the Middle East so I can buy cheap junk at Wall Mart or cheap gas to support a huge Ford Valdez SUV. That is just me. You go ahead and consume to your heart's content and drain your wallet. I still hope oil goes up in price.

For the record buddy, I never said my opinion is worth more than anyone else's. It is just my opinion. Is your opinion worth more than mine? Nope.

I do agree that government has no business snooping into one's bedroom, or wiretapping citizens without a warrent. Government has to be watched carefully (especially this admin), just as business needs to be watched.

[logansowner]

[quote=iamkjk;1466202]

Originally Posted by kodos78

It's fun watching the statists and nannies come out in this thread. Most of them do not realize they advocate suppression of free will and freedom in general.

THEY hate "suburban sprawl", "big box stores", etc...

Why does their opinion count more than mine or anyone else's? Sure I don't care for Toyotas and most Japanese cars, but I would NEVER advocate taxing them separately.

Just because you or I dislike something doesn't mean that we can meddle with it through the power of government. A free society is not meant to be a comfortable place to live all the time. It's not meant to coddle its citizens, it's not meant to take care of their every whim.

A free society however lets people make their own choices, to get out of their way when they want to do something.

QUOTE]

Free society? Then let's eliminate traffic signals - I should be able to drive through intersections any way I want. I am free. Let's eliminate food safety laws, put lead back in paint etc. I should be able to scream FIRE in a crowded movie theater. I think you get my point.

Government's job is to balance our freedoms, and the greed of capitalism against what is in the country's long range good. Consuming unlimited amounts of gas in not in our long range best interest. American's bizarre need to consume unnecessary stuff (at big box stores for example) is only making China rich and a future threat. I don't really want transfer my wealth to China or the Middle East so I can buy cheap junk at Wall Mart or cheap gas to support a huge Ford Valdez SUV. That is just me. You go ahead and consume to your heart's content and drain your wallet. I still hope oil goes up in price.

For the record buddy, I never said my opinion is worth more than anyone else's. It is just my opinion. Is your opinion worth more than mine? Nope.

I do agree that government has no business snooping into one's bedroom, or wiretapping citizens without a warrent. Government has to be watched carefully (especially this admin), just as business needs to be watched.

Nobody was implying that we are free to do foolish things like that. You aren't free to murder and rape either.

Laws are by definition supposed to "support common sense through fear of punishment". That is what they do. Unfortunately, the few laws we had that suited us just fine for a good many years no longer seem enough, and we need to actually write, vote in and enforce laws about the absolute most obvious and trivial things. I mean who actually thought we needed to write a law that it was illegal to drive down the sidewalk? Seriously, it is sad that things like that need to actually be given time and money when anyone with 7 brain cells knows it to be common sense. But open the books and there it is...someone actually used time and money to vote that law in.

We need fewer laws, not more. Governments job should be to stay away from as much as possible unless there is a real need for intervention...most of the time however they just want to play Nannie.

Obama will fix this, thank god, with more taxes though. You can all rest easy.

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

Originally Posted by logansowner

It should be and the only reason people say it shouldn't is because of the "hippie part 2" Revelation that everything must be green. Emissions are the sole reason these twats want high prices/less use. Unfortunately, their science tends to be very loose to say the least. They have no real proof that our cars are causing any of the changes we see now.

People didn't become green because they give a damn, they became green because the high prices forced them to more frugal vehicles, and they latched on to the green train as a side effect-a feel good factory. These same two mouth talkers drove trucks 5 years ago, and are now spewing their holier than thou crap on the rest of us.

If you want to be green, without any proof that you're accomplishing anything except funding the new green business revolution, but a Prius. Just leave the rest of us alone.

And don't even get me started on more taxes to lower use. Guess what? Those evil vehicles you feel so inclined to throw a gas guzzler tax at, ALREADY pay a gas guzzler tax in the form of paying for more gas...and the tax that is already on it.

So yes. Oil should be cheaper. Not necessarily cheap, but cheaper. I say it should be around $60/bbl. 5 years ago that price would have pissed everyone off, now it looks like an impossible dream. I also think these new CAFE regulations are a GOOD thing. If someone wants to drive a truck, so be it, but don't just buy one because the neighbor has one. Don't be a trend.

Without regulations, we'd all go back to Hummers if gas went back to $2.50. CAFE regulations would stop this, or slow it down a lot.

If we ignore personal transport completely, we still have the fact that high oil means expensive everything. It's a BS market. Oil goes up, so does every other fuel, even non oil based ones. Your food costs more, your kids toys cost more, hell, even condoms were more expensive than a year ago.

So how can there be any talk of oil being expensive a positive factor? How can anyone say that lower standards of living are good?

If we impose a minimum price on things like this, we might as well live in China, a free country doesn't have "minimum prices".

Energy, not necessarily oil, has to become cheaper and cheaper to the point where it isn't feasible to charge for it and instead charge for the service (ie "20$/month for electricity not 0,10/kWh)

All of human development to this day has centred on finding new uses for energy and new sources. Energy consumption of each human has gone up and must continue to go up, thus the price must come down!

As for China, they actually have a maximum price for oil... they raised it recently but they are still paying like $0,75/L for gas

[chakis24]

oil should be cheap if its supposed to be cheap, and expensive if its supposed to be expensive. thats it. theres no reason there should be any kind of legislation to control it.

[iamkjk]

[quote=logansowner;1466213]

Originally Posted by iamkjk

Nobody was implying that we are free to do foolish things like that. You aren't free to murder and rape either.

Laws are by definition supposed to "support common sense through fear of punishment". That is what they do. Unfortunately, the few laws we had that suited us just fine for a good many years no longer seem enough, and we need to actually write, vote in and enforce laws about the absolute most obvious and trivial things. I mean who actually thought we needed to write a law that it was illegal to drive down the sidewalk? Seriously, it is sad that things like that need to actually be given time and money when anyone with 7 brain cells knows it to be common sense. But open the books and there it is...someone actually used time and money to vote that law in.

We need fewer laws, not more. Governments job should be to stay away from as much as possible unless there is a real need for intervention...most of the time however they just want to play Nannie.

Obama will fix this, thank god, with more taxes though. You can all rest easy.

If Obama is smart, he will raise taxes. Gasp! If McBain is smart he will raise taxes. Gasp! Somehow we have to pay for this war, it does not get paid for by magic. Do you have any idea how much this war is costing us? I don't like higher taxes, but I am a realist. A nice big gas tax would help pay off this foolish war and drive people away from being enery hogs. Win win.

Everyone wants fewer laws, the trick is to decide which ones need to go. It ain't so easy to get an agreement.

[Member17739]

We allowed the market to decide the high end of of the oil prices, for now. How about we let the market to decide whats the low end too.

[fastball]

I'm greedy, I want my cake and eat it too...... I'm all for low gas prices and drilling for more on our own land - EVERYWHERE..... No limits!!!

I say no to gas taxes and yes to drilling in ANWAR and everywhere else. So what if it takes ten years to reap the bennefits, if they had started 10 years ago we wouldn't have this mess.

And if LaBamba gets elected, a gas tax would be least of our concerns when it comes to democrat's insatiable appetite for taxes.

[jlt0x]

The US govt should do more to regulate fuel prices. Though, it's interesting to see how many people have been living beyond their own means. OK...gas prices have doubled, but that shouldn't be enough to to force millions of blue/white-collar middle-class people to think about drastic cost saving measures. For those who had already been struggling, time are even tougher.

If the housing industry wasn't going bust, higher fuel prices wouldn't have been a serious issue as home owners would be spending cash on home improvement and building more homes regardless. It's just been so unfortunate that before the US oil industry could get back to pre-Katrina production levels, the low ARM interests rates started to expire and began the nasty, dirty snowball that it is today.

[logansowner]

[quote=iamkjk;1466240]

Originally Posted by logansowner

If Obama is smart, he will raise taxes. Gasp! If McBain is smart he will raise taxes. Gasp! Somehow we have to pay for this war, it does not get paid for by magic. Do you have any idea how much this war is costing us? I don't like higher taxes, but I am a realist. A nice big gas tax would help pay off this foolish war and drive people away from being enery hogs. Win win.

Everyone wants fewer laws, the trick is to decide which ones need to go. It ain't so easy to get an agreement.

Nobody has proven that our gas use has caused any real problems, it's just guessing...and forced legislation which simply opens new business types.

Guess what, China pays nowhere near as much for fuel as we do. Their cars are dirty, and unsafe. Our cars are very safe and have practically no emissions with modern equipment. So instead of fixing the problem area (China) we will punish ourselves, despite the fact that we are already much cleaner.

Screw taxes, and screw not letting the free market run. Our government refused to step in against the free market when prices got high, but they want to step in if they get low? Bull crap. You cannot raise taxes enough to pay off the war. The US is in permanent debt. Even if everyone paid 70% tax, you're 9 trillion dollar debt still couldn't be paid off. It's hopeless, so why bother punishing everyone by raising taxes for something that can't be fixed anyway?

[wagonertheidiot]

This is the dumbest thread ever, should oil be cheap? Uh, yes! Get government out of the way and lets drill when and where needed. Lets stop believing this phony lie about global warming and call it what it is - a wealth redistribution program. Which Obama favors BTW, he afterall introduced the Global Poverty Act. For too long we have been hijacked by leftist environmentalist nazi socialists and its got to end. There killing the economy, the auto companies and the middle class. The biggest thing wrong with our economy right now is high gas prices. We are a nation built around cheap gas and the ability of every American to go whereever they want cheaply! Congress, the senate and the President are too stupid and too in the pockets of special interests to get it. Impeach Pelosi and lets move on. This congress has a lower approval rating than the President for a reason. Under Stretchface Pelosi's leadership they have failed to do any of the things they promised to do their first 100 days. The democrats should do what there best at - sitting there and shuting up while the grownups do the heavy lifting and run this country.

And the national debt can absolutely be paid off. First government needs to stop spending money on programs it has no Constituitional business spending money on. The ONLY thing the federal government should be doing is providing for our defense. It should not be bailing out the airlines, the mortgage compaines, the investment compaines, etc. The government is like most Americans, its spending money it doesn't have. Its needs to stop. Repeal medicare, social security, the prescription drug plan, etc. All of it!

[1G6]

Originally Posted by I-Love-Pontiac

I was just using the Tahoe as an example. Lower prices means more suv sales which means less fuel for the rest of us. I love SUVs, but with the way things look with oil they just seem incredibly irresponsible.

You shouldn't give in to the Marxist mindset.

[wildgoosechase]

Our economy is based on cheap energy, that has been the engine of our county's success. Yes we use more energy than any other nation, but we produce more in terms of economic activity than any other nation. Energy is an imput to create wealth. As long as there is a suitible substitute for oil at a competitive price. Ethanol and Bio-diesel are the "next best alternative" given current technology and thus are the leading contenders to be subtitutes. If other more expensive or less capible alternatives are mandated ie:electric vehicles we can expect a massive slowdown of our economy.