A shocking number, but not a death knell

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by wescoent

If Buick wants to be taken seriously as a luxury brand, it cannot be in the same showroom as any product under $28,000. If I buy a Buick Invicta (such a great name), I don't want to be drinking stale coffee next to some punk with a G5, or some blue-collar nobody in a Sierra.

I want a customer service experience on par with what I can expect at a Lexus dealership. Polished marble floors, espresso machine, sales and service staff falling all over themselves to make you happy.

Does this make me a snotty elitist? It surely does, but people who are dropping coin on a luxury product want the WHOLE experience. If Buick seriously believes it can continue selling bench-seated tape-deck equipped Century-successor Lacrosse and Lucerne models and survive, then they are dead wrong.

This will eat the ES350's lunch all day long (ESPECIALLY with AWD), but nobody is going to want to trade in the Lexus customer service experience. Either BPG steps up, Buick gets divorced, or everyone loses.

There won't be a G5 in a proper Pontiac lineup, it starts with the Solstice moves up to Firebird and Torana (Alpha), then GTO/Grand Prix (Sigma).

Buick starts with Skyhawk/Skylark (Delta), Regal Coupe (Ep SWB), Invicta (Ep LWB), Gran Sport (Zeta SWB) then Electra (Zeta LWB)

GMC Sierra buyers lean more to SLT trim levels than WT and Denali buyers are looking for an upscale buying experience and are familiar with the Lexus, BMW and MB experience as that is the car they drive.

Again, it is the product that needs updating - not the sales channel.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by Orbit Orange

I like it. This is what I'm talking about, concrete ideas. I'll use the new Camaro as an example. Basically they chose 15 "disciples" to help point out things a new Camaro would need. Why not do this with EVERY vehicle and frankly do it it EVERY region. It would entail a lot of work for GM but just think of the press they could get for doing so. Good point hotrod1949.

GM management (top level) need to spend time in SoCal dealerships and talk to customers that come to them - they will find many potential buyers that get discouraged by product features and inventory available.

They need to have their eyes opened to the fact that they are very close on many products that the bean counters have made unsellable with obvious "cost cutting" and not offering some key features for any price. All problems that can be fixed and result in a 10% sales increase without any redesigns or waiting for "next years" models.

I guarantee they can boost sales 10% in SoCal without one design change, but dozens of option/feature revisions - many that could be implemented by the end of 2008.

[tollytime]

Originally Posted by Orbit Orange

True but Pontiac cannot also abandon it's RWD V8 loving crowd as well and this is the niche crowd I'm talking about. Sure have the smaller, lighter, good handling, good performing 4's and 6's in the lineup but keep the big boys there as well. Funny you mention this but when I see Mazda and what they offer it seems they are actually out-"Pontiac ing" what Pontiac puts out on the small end. The Mazdaspeed stuff is really what Pontiac should be trying to do with it's smaller cars. Pontiac will never sell like it sold in the 60's and 70's. It has to find a new spot somewhere between a niche brand and those old numbers. Product again is key, and you are correct I've been one of the biggest detractors of the lame G6. The fugly GXP edition of the G6 with the buck teeth and whale tail spoiler is what is wrong with Pontiac right now. Pontiac needs better product.

Ummm, Exactly. Why were you arguing with me again? Umm, don't you think all GM divisions need smaller and lighter products. Your talking about a line of cars the competition is selling right now. This was my point. Lack of product. Supply and demand. ETC. I'm just not worthy of arguing with you. Your intellect is far beyond mine. I will get on my knees and worship his greatness and his ultimate chariot, the GTO!! Sorry I can't keep a conversation with you, I will retreat to my hole and slide under the rock from which I came. My fellow forum members, witness the wisdom of this supreme mental giant. Please forgive me your excellency if I have offended you in any way.

[Orbit Orange]

Ummm, Exactly. Why were you arguing with me again? Umm, don't you think all GM divisions need smaller and lighter products. Your talking about a line of cars the competition is selling right now. This was my point. Lack of product. Supply and demand. ETC. I'm just not worthy of arguing with you. Your intellect is far beyond mine. I will get on my knees and worship his greatness and his ultimate chariot, the GTO!! Sorry I can't keep a conversation with you, I will retreat to my hole and slide under the rock from which I came. My fellow forum members, witness the wisdom of this supreme mental giant. Please forgive me your excellency if I have offended you in any way.

Your mouth just doesn't stop running does it.

If you have mentioned something about providing more product and what that product was I would have been fine with it. But no, you launch right into some biased tirade against the GTO like the devil himself planted it on Earth. Then you go on insulting both myself and the car all the while puffing yourself up like some arrogant butthole. So end with the insults and start saying what you want. What is the product you think GM needs? No more GTO insults or what GM doesn't need. Get the point yet? What do you suggest? I and many others are trying to carry on a civil debate and you keep bringing up a subject just to irritate me. Frankly I couldn't be more pleased than you don't like a GTO but that isn't here nor there as to what will keep GM alive. So if you can quit your condescension for about 5 minutes why don't you expound on all this vast knowledge you must obviously think you have and share. If not STFU.

Now as to smaller and lighter vehicles that is a start. Lordy be we agree on something. So which division needs what and what will these vehicles be? Give specifics as I'm sick of the insults.

[Orbit Orange]

GM management (top level) need to spend time in SoCal dealerships and talk to customers that come to them - they will find many potential buyers that get discouraged by product features and inventory available.

They need to have their eyes opened to the fact that they are very close on many products that the bean counters have made unsellable with obvious "cost cutting" and not offering some key features for any price. All problems that can be fixed and result in a 10% sales increase without any redesigns or waiting for "next years" models.

I guarantee they can boost sales 10% in SoCal without one design change, but dozens of option/feature revisions - many that could be implemented by the end of 2008.

I like your thinking but to limit it to SoCal when many other places in the country desire the same thing, may not be the best idea. GM needs to market to the entire country not just a specific area. But as I said I do like your thoughts on offering certain features.

[tollytime]

Originally Posted by Orbit Orange

Your mouth just doesn't stop running does it.

If you have mentioned something about providing more product and what that product was I would have been fine with it. But no, you launch right into some biased tirade against the GTO like the devil himself planted it on Earth. Then you go on insulting both myself and the car all the while puffing yourself up like some arrogant butthole. So end with the insults and start saying what you want. What is the product you think GM needs? No more GTO insults or what GM doesn't need. Get the point yet? What do you suggest? I and many others are trying to carry on a civil debate and you keep bringing up a subject just to irritate me. Frankly I couldn't be more pleased than you don't like a GTO but that isn't here nor there as to what will keep GM alive. So if you can quit your condescension for about 5 minutes why don't you expound on all this vast knowledge you must obviously think you have and share. If not STFU.

Now as to smaller and lighter vehicles that is a start. Lordy be we agree on something. So which division needs what and what will these vehicles be? Give specifics as I'm sick of the insults.

Wow!! I didn't resort to swearing (STFU) or say words like "butthole". That's pretty extreme for some guys just talking cars. Don't worry, I'm done with my rebuttle to you. I like a good argument, but that's where I draw the line. You take yourself a little to seriously and I would suggest some personal counseling.

[Orbit Orange]

You take yourself a little to seriously and I would suggest some personal counseling.

Something about a pot and a kettle comes to mind.

Don't worry, I'm done with my rebuttle to you.

Likewise.

[tom3]

[davefr]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

Again, it is the product that needs updating - not the sales channel.

I'm affraid sales channel has to be part of the equation. Have you even seen a BPG dealership? Most of them are very old and tired looking and often in the old part of a city. Most of them are probably the same showroom that's been there from the 60's or 70's without even a facelift.

When you walk inside they are dark and dreary and there might be one or two 2 salesmen working fleet and internet in some back cubicle and no-one has a clue about the product they sell and it results in a very depressing overall consumer experience. If this is how GM wants to portray their image then they should shut down the sales division at dealerships and turn them into service centers only. All sales could be online only.

When I bought my G8 I saw no need for a dealership to even exist. The only thing lacking was a "buy it now" link at the gminventory.com tagging site. The vehicle could have been delivered straight to the buyer from the distribution yard and totally bypass the dealer.

[Orbit Orange]

The vehicle could have been delivered straight to the buyer from the distribution yard and totally bypass the dealer.

And miss the chance to haggle down the price from above MSRP, then haggle over the extended warantee and have to wait fifteen times while the salesman, "has a word with the sales manager in back" (read smoke a cig). Why, who wouldn't miss that experience?

[tollytime]

The vehicle could have been delivered straight to the buyer from the distribution yard and totally bypass the dealer.[/quote]

GM doesn't have a dealers license. You need that to sell a car in any state. To get a Dealer license in my state you to have a Display lot and insurance. The state also requires the paperwork to be signed on the lot. It would also violate the terms of the GM franchise agreement with it's dealerships. Most states are pretty strict about franchise laws. Nice idea, but it's not gonna happen.

[Orbit Orange]

Don't forget about all the chain-smoking, sidemouth-talking salesmen(women) that would be put out of a job. And who doesn't like market-adjustment? And everyone loves to pay 10X the amount for some cheesy tint and graphics "package" that gets put on a vehicle. Plus the elderly who don't have internet access don't have a chance to be suckered out of their fixed incomes when a lot of information gets flashed by them and they end up signing without knowing what they did. Wouldn't they miss that? I mean c'mon.

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by tom3