For Sale by GM: Contaminated Factory Sites, Parking Lots, Golf Course

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by Rocket 88

Its the circle of life.

GM lobbies the government against every regulation imaginable. GM dumps toxins in the environment.

GM goes bankrupt but the government bails them out. GM's environmental mess becomes and expensive DEP government responsibility. Brilliant!

Luckily the only folks being screwed are the environment, the indians, and the tax payers.

Not by GM.



Guess again, or, are we to forget the whole sordid story concerning PCBs and how the world including GM was repeatably lied to concerning their use, handling and toxicity ?

You seriously don't know that ??

Or, worse, you do ???

Hey if you don't like what this Bloomberg sourced GM smear piece 'says' about GM - don't buy a car from any OEM because they all got caught by it the same way

Hundreds of thousands of all kinds of facilities world wide - better yet, tens of millions of people have suffered 'exposure and or had this problem because of the deliberate misinformation - by the manufacturers of the PCB - for basically almost 50 years in one aspect or another.

That btw, would include the people in that area who would've been massively dosed even if GM didn't exist. ( Yep - sad to say )

But don't worry, because literally almost all Americans have anywhere from "some" to "a lot" inside themselves.

Want it simple ? Ok, PCB in the USA is just another way to spell M-O-N-S-A-N-T-O

*******

Some useful information -

Is there a problem with hydraulic fluid?

There may be, but it's not likely.

Hydraulic fluid containing polychlorinated biphenyls (PCB) was mostly used in high-temperature applications such as die-casting machines.

There's a small possibility that hydraulic fluids for elevators or automotive lifts may be contaminated by PCBs, if the fluids haven't been completely flushed and replaced since about 1984, and there's no manufacturer-applied label that states that the fluids are PCB-free.

Monsanto's Pydraul brand accounted for nearly all hydraulic fluids with PCBs in the United States, but they also produced fluids that didn't contain PCBs that had the Pydraul label.

If you have a hydraulic system containing pre-1984 fluids of this brand, you should probably check for PCBs. Fluid tests costing about $50 are available through many testing labs. -

So lets follow the maker of GM's industrial hydraulic oil along the time line.....

http://www.foxriverwatch.com/monsanto2a_pcb_pcbs.html

The History of PCBs

When Were Health Problems Detected?

PCB History, PCBs History, history of PCBs, history of PCB, PCB timeline, Monsanto

1865-1972

1973-2001

PCB history is not pretty.

As the timeline shows, the manufacturers and major users of PCBs knew by the 1930s and 1940s that PCBs caused serious health problems in their workers, and doctors advised them that other effects could be occurring as well.

But this did not stop industries from producing and using PCBs, or from releasing PCBs into our environment, contaminating our public waterways, air, croplands, and wildlife.

It appears from this PCB history that several companies also deliberately misled workers, customers, regulators and the public for many decades, allowing the PCB problem to spread and become much worse.

Ah that would be Monsanto, GE, Westinghouse....... just to start dropping some names .......

1865 --- First PCB-like chemical discovered; a by-product of coal tar.

1881 --- First PCBs synthesized. [2]

1914 --- Enough PCBs had already escaped into the environment to leave measurable amounts in the feathers of birds held in museums today. [3]

1927 --- PCBs were first manufactured commercially by the Anniston Ordnance Company, in Anniston, Alabama. [4] The Anniston Plant’s legacy began in 1915 when Theodore Swann founded the company to manufacture six-inch explosive shell cases for the U.S. Army. To see photos and learn what the Anniston plant makes now, visit http://www.solutia.com/corporate/wor.../anniston.html

1930 --- The company’s name changed to the Swann Chemical Company. [4]

1933 --- Problems soon arose at the manufacturing plant. 23 out of 24 workers in the plant had acne-like pustules on their faces and bodies. Some complained of loss of energy, appetite and libido as well as other skin ailments. These symptoms are now known as classic first signs of PCB exposure. [6]

1935 --- Swann was purchased in 1935 by the Monsanto Industrial Chemical Company of St. Louis, Missouri.

Monsanto produced PCBs at plants in Sauget, Illinois and Anniston, Alabama (until 1977.) [5]

Monsanto then licensed others to make PCBs and the product took off.

PCB's have been produced in other countries including

Italy (Caffaro), France (Protolec),

Japan (Kanegafuchi Chemical Co.),

Germany (Bayer),

and they may still be produced in Russia.

[7] As electricity came into widespread use during the first half of this century, equipment suppliers like GE and Westinghouse became major users of PCBs.

One Monsanto engineer allegedly called it "as perfect as any industrial chemical can be." [8]

1936 --- A senior official with the U.S. Public Health Service described a wife and child, both of whom had developed chloracne, a combination of blackheads and "pustules," merely from contact with a worker’s clothes. The same official wrote, "In addition to these skin lesions, symptoms of systemic poisoning have occurred among workers inhaling these fumes."[9]

1936 - Scientists issued a report attributing the plant workers’ disease symptoms to poor handling techniques and the "natural laziness of the black man." [6]

Read about the time between 1936 and 1966 for full affect of what comes next.

1966 --- The general scientific community first became aware of PCBs as an environmental problem when a Dr. Jensen published his research which found PCBs in 200 pike from all over Sweden, in other fish, and in an eagle. -

"Truly the PCBs are a worldwide ecological problem," declared a Monsanto company memo that included a list of concerns under the heading "Business Potential at Stake on a Worldwide Basis." [5]

1967 --- According to Monsanto telephone logs, Shell Oil called to inform the company of the Swedish press reports, and to ask for PCB samples for its own analytical studies. [11]

1968 --- After Jensen’s discovery, Monsanto executives visited him in Sweden, and company records indicate that Monsanto obtained an unpublished 1968 paper he wrote with two colleagues detailing the analytical method for detecting PCBs in the environment.

Neither did Riseborough’s findings take the company by surprise: a January 18, 1968, internal memo about PCBs in shorebirds warns a Canadian colleague to "expect publication from California." [11]

1968 --- 1,300 residents of Kyushu, Japan, fell ill after eating rice-bran oil (yusho) contaminated with PCBs fluids.
Many showed immediate symptoms including severe chloracne, respiratory ailments, and failing vision.
Two out of 12 children were stillborn and nearly all of the babies showed signs of PCB diseases.
Since then, more than 50 people have died; many with internal tumors and irregular lymph nodes and livers.
Subsequent studies published in leading medical journals showed that PCBs cause a statistically significant increase in lung cancer [20], and damage to the immune system, reproductive system, nervous and endocrine system.
It was from the "Yusho Incident" that scientists would soon document birth defects, low birth weights, and numerous other chronic effects from PCB exposure.
Nine years after, there was a sixfold increase in liver-cancer deaths among affected men and threefold among women.
Ultimately, researchers found liver cancers at 15 times the normal rate.

Despite international attention to the Yusho Incident, just two months later Monsanto’s corporate-development committee set a four-year goal of increasing by 20 times its sales of Therminol heat-transfer fluid - essentially the same PCB product that poisoned the Japanese victims.

In the United States, Therminol was used as a heating medium inside the coils of deep-fat fryers. [7,11]

Lots more worth reading around this time period.

1969 --- Between 1969 and 1971, at least 9 major food contaminations occurred with PCBs. [11]

1969 --- Monsanto wrote a "Pollution Abatement Plan," which admitted that "the problem involves the entire United States, Canada and sections of Europe, especially the United Kingdom and Sweden.... [O]ther areas of Europe, Asia and Latin America will surely become involved.

[b] Evidence of contamination [has] been shown in some of the very remote parts of the world. They knew "the evidence proving the persistence of these compounds and their universal presence as residues in the environment is beyond questioning."

The plan warned that "the corporate image of Monsanto as a responsible member of the business world genuinely concerned with the welfare of our environment will be adversely affected with increased publicity."

More to the point, "direct lawsuits are possible" because "all customers using these products have not been officially notified about known effects nor [do] our labels carry this information."

The plan proposed three options, with charts showing their potential profits and liabilities.

Should Monsanto "Do Nothing," profits would likely decline and liability extend into the future.

"We cannot deny the findings and the accusations of various agencies," the plan said. "If we took no action we would likely face numerous suits."

Under the "Discontinue Manufacture of PCB" option, profits would cease and liability would soar because "we would be admitting guilt by our actions."

But with the "Responsible Approach," which involved acknowledging certain aspects of the problem, tightening restrictions, and continuing to manufacture and sell PCBs, profits theoretically would increase and liability slowly decline, all but vanishing by the mid-1970s.

It was this latter approach that Monsanto chose, making some adjustments to its business practices but going to battle with the government to keep PCBs on the market, despite growing scientific evidence that they constituted a public-health menace and an environmental nightmare.

Henceforth, Monsanto required its customers to sign indemnity agreements to hold it harmless from any future liability.

Monsanto also vowed to sell PCBs only to customers who would use them in "totally enclosed systems" - even as it continued to market PCBs in products that directly contacted food. [11]

1969 --- Monsanto established a committee to keep abreast of the state of knowledge on PCBs. The issue was beginning to look like "a monster," in the words of one former executive.

According to the notes of one Monsanto researcher, these were the thoughts of the group: "Make the Govt., States and Universities prove their case, but avoid as much confrontation as possible....

....We can prove some things are OK at low concentration.

Give Monsanto some defense.... We can’t defend vs. everything.

Some animals or fish or insects will be harmed.... The Dept. of Interior and/or state authorities could monitor plant outfall and find [discharges] of chlorinated biphenyls at...Anniston anytime they choose to do so.

This would shut us down depending on what plants or animals they choose to find harmed..." Also, he wrote: "Problem: Damage to the ecological system by contamination from polychlorinated biphenyl (PCB).

Legal Liability: Direct lawsuits are possible.

The materials are already present in nature having done their "alleged damage." All customers using the products have not been officially notified about known effects nor [do] our labels carry this information."

Public Image: The corporate image of Monsanto as a responsible member of the business world genuinely concerned with the welfare of our environment will be adversely affected with increased publicity. [5]

1969 - The National Environmental Act was passed by Congress. This required an Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) for every major new project. It also focused the country’s attention on the conditions of our rivers. [6]

1969-1970 --- Paper company discharges of PCBs into the Fox River peaked.

1970 --- Annual U.S. production peaked this year, with 85 million pounds of PCBs produced. [21] -

- and we can't post all the rest - the really fun stuff because of length but at least we outlined the time period for Corvair cylinder head product.

But hey, lets look at a snippet that shows you a little more about who is REALLY responsible here.

1970 --- Monsanto said steps had been taken to insure public safety, but denied knowledge of whether any PCBs had been released from its W.G. Krummrich plant in Sauget, Illinois.

(Monsanto’s plant in Sauget has over a dozen chemical dumps on it, according to the WALL STREET JOURNAL, several of them containing substantial quantities of PCBs, at concentrations as high as 74,000 parts per million (ppm), or 7.4 percent.

For years, the Sauget plant was the nation’s largest single manufacturer of PCBs.

Monsanto officials insist that the PCBs on their property do not necessarily belong to them. Anyone could have dumped PCBs there, they say.

All told, there are more than one million tons of chemical wastes on Monsanto’s property.

Monsanto insists the wastes did not necessarily come from their plant, located half a mile north of the dumps.

It is company policy to destroy waste records after 4 years.

Meanwhile the state of Illinois has spent 12 years and $1.3 million trying to get the Monsanto site listed on the federal Superfund.

An estimated 13 tons of chemical wastes leach off the Monsanto site into the Mississippi River each year.) [1]

- which is why you should be very picky about seafood 'downstream'.

Poor New Orleans

[1G6]

More evidence as to why AMERICA_123 is GMI's best poster.

[BrickTamland]

Originally Posted by Kennyboy

Does this include the NUMMI plant also, being an old GM plant.

Toyota would have a say in its future, since along with the Vibe and Voltz (but not the Matrix, which is made in Cambridge, Ontario), Toyota makes Tacomas and Corollas there. Then again, GM opened the factory originally back in 1962, so maybe the land still belongs to GM. I don't know the specifics of the ownership and the contract, but I think a there is a good possibility Toyota will purchase the plant in full.

[AMERICA 123]

Thanks buddy - I'm going to take that but only as 'from one, to a lesser other'.

You're definitely on my alpha list - sometimes you get more done than anyone - with a simple one liner.

And thats sayin' something because we have a lot like that here that are really, really good.


*****

I get tired of all the spin, then I get motivated.

Seriously, this kind of thing almost tripped me on two real estate deals. One going in and one going out sooo..... I learned a little 'about' it.

I used to tell people if they found out I was terminal and my own PCB levels were still high - don't come looking - 'cause you could probably find me at Monsanto's HQs in a manner of speaking.

Seriously, did you read all of it - I couldn't post more than a fraction of what they did and because of the dates involved had to leave out the worst..

Monsanto basically poisoned a great deal of the planet and people, lied to everyone about everything and then ..... kept on going.

[Drive_Fast]

sounds like i can get a good deal on the land... i could turn it into an exotic club for cars and women.... your food would be delivered in corvettes and bentlys....

[Bvonscott]

AMERICA 123. Oh my GOD. I cant believe what I just read. I cant believe the way they handled that. Every exec at that company should be hung up or sent to jail for life.
Thats is Im buying a reverse osmosis for my water ASAP.

[Nightshark]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Guess again, or, are we to forget the whole sordid story concerning PCBs and how the world including GM was repeatably lied to concerning their use, handling and toxicity ?



Want it simple ? Ok, PCB in the USA is just another way to spell M-O-N-S-A-N-T-O

*******

Some useful information -



So lets follow the maker of GM's industrial hydraulic oil along the time line.....

http://www.foxriverwatch.com/monsanto2a_pcb_pcbs.html

Thanks for the link. Very insightful. I had heard a little about it in the past but as most of it took place before my time and during my early years there was a lot I was not aware of.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by Bvonscott

AMERICA 123. Oh my GOD. I cant believe what I just read. I cant believe the way they handled that. Every exec at that company should be hung up or sent to jail for life.
Thats is Im buying a reverse osmosis for my water ASAP.

Oh yes Byonscott, but as you can see - its already been and still is 'everywhere'.

Even the very best of the organic food supply can and does in some cases have some and other similar in it.

The best of the herbal people can actually help with it although conventional wisdom says not so - believe me it can work. You really want to learn about cleansing.... especially the liver to start. although that is a three stepper in a sense.

Originally Posted by Nightshark

Thanks for the link. Very insightful. I had heard a little about it in the past but as most of it took place before my time and during my early years there was a lot I was not aware of.

You are welcome Nightshark....... they really did a bad thing - over and over and over again.

When you add up what was gained and what was lost..... wow..... words fail.

There is a very high human cost as well, in more than one way.

Notice the other aspects included - dioxin etc etc.

We still have the consequences of all this in place and will for longer than I want to point out.

And then, there are a lot more stories just like it..... all over the planet.

We have truly fouled the land and water of this beautiful country.... and this planet.

It usefully illustrates exactly why we need to stop allowing the part time fiction of the Corporation as a person of standing in our legal system which is nothing more than a shield so that people are not held personally accountable for their actions and decisions in the Corporate setting.

And, related.......... exactly for what in return ???

Even the economics of it are a loser - at better than a Billion to one - .


*********

Btw, although the time line hints around at it in a generic sense, I want to point out that for most of the hydraulic oil production life ie Monsanto's Pydraul brand , they did not label it as containing PCB.

But of course, that basically criminal negligence - as determined later in the courtroom is compounded still further. .........sigh -

I suggest everybody take the time and read it again.

Its one of the reasons I can't stand Corporate spin - been there , done that and nope, I'm not going to stand idly by - again.

And don't forget, this was first used in a major way for 6 inch naval gun ammo - which in modified form composed the U.S. Army ordinance referenced. .

[neshapop]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Oh yes Byonscott, but as you can see - its already been and still is 'everywhere'.

Even the very best of the organic food supply can and does in some cases have some and other similar in it.

The best of the herbal people can actually help with it although conventional wisdom says not so - believe me it can work. You really want to learn about cleansing.... especially the liver to start. although that is a three stepper in a sense.



You are welcome Nightshark....... they really did a bad thing - over and over and over again.

When you add up what was gained and what was lost..... wow..... words fail.

There is a very high human cost as well, in more than one way.

Notice the other aspects included - dioxin etc etc.

We still have the consequences of all this in place and will for longer than I want to point out.

And then, there are a lot more stories just like it..... all over the planet.

We have truly fouled the land and water of this beautiful country.... and this planet.

It usefully illustrates exactly why we need to stop allowing the part time fiction of the Corporation as a person of standing in our legal system which is nothing more than a shield so that people are not held personally accountable for their actions and decisions in the Corporate setting.

And, related.......... exactly for what in return ???

Even the economics of it are a loser - at better than a Billion to one - .


*********

Btw, although the time line hints around at it in a generic sense, I want to point out that for most of the hydraulic oil production life, they did not label it as containing PCB.

I suggest everybody take the time and read it again.

Its one of the reasons I can't stand Corporate spin - been there , done that and nope, I'm not going to stand idly by - again.

And don't forget, this was first used in a major way for 6 inch naval gun ammo.

Holy smoke, man! What a story!

[Bvonscott]

America 123, Ive been reading even more about Monsanto, they are a really @$%@#$ up company, producing agent orange, dioxin, PCB's, all kinds of bad chemicals and then they just dumped anywhere they could, all around the globe. And fought to cover it up the whole way. WOW. BTW, they now make bio-agricultural products like HGH for Cow milk and seeds and such. I suggest anyone to stay away from anything they have their hands in.

[AMERICA 123]

Good stuff.

Now what you want to do is see who they bank with, partner with, and who they have had on their board and similar.

Somewhat related, in the timeline around the 1970 mark, is an interesting lawsuit brought by a Nevada power company.

Gets into who knew what when outside of Monsanto.

And then ....... the lines of defense pursued by Monsanto and friends.

Priceless.

*****

On the other hand, dig deep enough about all the things like this ....... it can get hard to buy anything from anybody if you are real strict about it.

But having said that,

The petrochemical people are going to be the death of us all -

[doh]

I once lived by a river, that had 2' of foam floating on it (early 70's). You could not go near it because of the "rotten Egg" smell, 30 miles away, you still got the smell, and foam. But that was the usual for making Paper, at the time.

PCB's don't scare me. Many companies have dumped far worse than them "Into the Enviroment"

The "Tree Hugger's"" have taken over. Yes they have helped. But PCB's in the ground, take it to the exsteme.

I have talked to someone, that stated, "I use to walk through PCB contaminaed Water" in "Rubber Boots"

He has since passed away. @ age 87!!!.

I hope I don't make it pass 80!!!

[jry]

GE was one of the biggest polluters.
I'll never forget a funny story. We had a capacitor leak in a broadcast transmitter at our Philly site. Small leak. One of the staff engineers went crazy, called the EPA and i think the fire department. Cleared the building. There was an accepted cleaning procedure that required no reporting. These oil filled caps had very little content and the leak was about 6 oz. Clean it up, call the toxic removal guy, replace the cap with a new, non PCB model, have a nice day. But no, its a 5 alarm fire.
At any rate, cruise Dort Highway in Flint and see the vast emptiness that once housed active commerce and employment. These empty lots are worth ZERO. I predict that there are no more strip clubs that want back into Flint and the city will end up with the dirt.

[rbarrios]

Originally Posted by Ming

NUMMI produces Toyotas and reskinned Toyota-based vehicles for GM, so all the factory emits is butterflies and flower pollen.

OH MAN!!! thanks... thats the quote of the weekend!!!

[ghughes]

NUMMI produced crap, except the vaunted toyotas, so it should be closed!!!!