Rumblings & Rants: Saving money, Cutting brands, and what GM SHOULD do to survive

[Rocket 88]

Originally Posted by Xenon

When you look at that chart, Saturn isn't doing all that bad. It's selling half as much cars as Pontiac....and it only has 1/6 of the dealerships that Pontiac has, and it has fewer cars as well.

Look not just at the sales numbers, but the number of sales per dealership.

Global Recognition:
Which brands have the most recognition worldwide? Because of this it wold be a very poor idea to fold Buick in the US, also Buick is the brand from which the rest of GM sprouted from, so killing Buick, in my opinion, would be jumping the shark for GM. Also Saab is pretty well routed in Europe, so folding Saab wouldn't be a wise decision either, and I believe that GM could use some of Saab's resources so they are also useful in the long run.

So that leaves us with Saturn, Hummer, GMC and Pontiac. Saturn would be an easy kill, since all the cars offered can be rolled into Pontiac, and there are few dealerships to deal with. Pontiac is an even easier kill since most of the dealerships are not stand alone, and Pontiac offers few unique cars that can't be carried over to other brands like say Chevrolet. Really this is a decision that GM needs to strongly think about for a while ( since it cannot be reversed), but at the same time, they cant afford to sit on this dilemma forever.

Totally agree.

GM has some work to figure out but killing either Pontiac or Saturn seems like the right course of action. While I am a big Saturn fan (and owner) it seems like GM blew the call when Saturn only sold outdate Ions and the last generation Vue.

Hummer should be sold if possible and GMC should become truly Commercial.

[Nkippert]

I work for GM/Saturn as a dealership service technician and from my standpoint the only major difference between GM's vehicles are it's division stylings. The mechanical and electrical architechural similarities are what matters most. I have to agree about the idea of merging Saturn/Opel into Pontiac. And in turn consolidating it into the BPG. Its a perfect idea. Drop Saturn Hummer and GMC (and or kill Chevrolet's truck line and make GMC the Generals truck headquarters) then i believe you will have a winner. Then concentrate on 5 Domestic nameplatesand create a certain demographic with each one to kickstart GM. But one thing for certain, something has to change soon, its such a bloated corporation as for as rebadges and models are concerned. They are gonna sink on the repetition.

[Buick Riviera]

I said: Buick/ Pontiac/Saturn as one, Cadillac/SAAB as one, Chevrolet buy them self. I get some more money for retooling there cars. Drop Hummer brand., and GMC Brand and make Chevrolet head quarters.

[vam29]

The short answer to the problem is to sell all Brands under one GM roof and to end the subsidies to prop-up one model over the other. Everything will then fall into place very quickly.

[buildacariwant]

BPSG dealership would never work for too many reasons to begin to list. as it is having BPG is already using 3 different brand names to essentially sell an "upscale" version of chevys full lineup.

there used to be a place for saturn which ironically would be booming and be GMs cash cow right now if it had stuck to its original basic affordable compact lineup. but too bad with its all new "upsacle" full line up now it's the new oldsmobile and it needs to go. even if you lose all 240k buyers to toyota/honda, GM could increase sales by at least that across whatever brands are left with better product and less advertising dollars wasted on saturn at this point.

GM has a bad business model for todays market and it's too expensive to continue anymore. sad to say but some of the brands have to go but most of the vehicles will live on in what ever 2 or 3 brands are left.

either that or continue shuffling around all these brand names and you want be able to buy a GM anything in a few years.

[redimpss5]

Who has bought a Saab lately?

[ZHDesign57]

MY thoughts:

Chevrolet: Mainstream, Targeting Honda, Toyota, Ford and Dodge.
Axed Models for Chevy: Suburban

Current Lineup, no problems except that it needs to build on shedding full size truck baggage. (The gas guzzler look) Possibly Tahoe could be axed as well.
Focus on Marketing will be key with the 45 mpg Cruze and the Volt/Eflex.

Pontiac: Small FWD (Since it sadly has been reported that it's lineup will change to small FWD, which makes sense considering GM's current state.) So, the biggest Model should be the G6. It's lineup should take some lessons from Scion. Scion is a small car company. Don't take me wrong, Pontiac does not need an XB. What I am saying is that it should take a few elements from that brand in terms of product portfolio and placement.

Axed Pontiacs: Solstice, and G8 + ST after 2010-11--, Vibe by Toyota. All Holden ties are probably gone, so now Design is completely up to the USA.

Ex: Pontiac:
Aveo based G3 (not exactly nessesary, but possible)
Small Crossover based off Delta. Pontiac style. (XB compet.)
Colbalt based Coupe and sedan "G5", Colbalt based Vibe Wgn.
Coupe to compete with Scion TC/ Or bring back the Firebird. (Not styled like a Camaro Rebadge! No more overlap.)
G6 sedan ONLY No Convertible or Coupe.

Buick: A brand that is entry-mid level Luxury, Completes with Lexus/Infinini. Needs to be a more "pushed" brand, Like Toyota does with Lexus.

Axed Buicks: None, add Models to Buick, while you cut from other brands!

Ex: Buick
Small Buick (Century,...)
LaCrosse Sedan
Lucerne Sedan (Call it something else,...Skylark, Roadmaster,...)
Enclave
Electra (E-Flex, doesnt have to be a Volt rebadge...)
Riviera Coupe/Convertible


GMC...Cut it. It adds nothing of value to GM. All rebadges.

BPG Dealers, by cutting GMC, and putting more Emphasis on Pontiac/Buick,
will be able to flaunt the expanded Buick and Pontiac models a bit more, and better, without the clustering.

Saturn: Basically Ocupies what Olds used to be. Keep some connection to Opel, but don't half-do it. Competes with Nissan, Honda, Hyundai/Kia.

Axed: Outlook

Ex: Saturn:
-Astra: Delta- Coupe, Sedan, 5-door (Drop the 3-door, theres nothing like it over here and people are not wild about the roof. Although I like it, it's not for everyone.)
-Aura: EpII sedan, evolve from current state: Chevy Malibu will cater to Mainstream and Chevy Customers, Target the car more twards the Accord. (I know that sounds bad, like the Malibu wouldn't) I would say if the Insignia was coming over as the next Aura that it would be fine, but apparently it's not. So, you just make it count GM. Do it right.
-Small Crossover similar in size to HHR.
-Vue: Doing fine, new one in a few years will be fine.
-Sky: Too good to Axe, IMO. Make it off the Next Corvette's platform, (It might be Kappa) Or just keep Kappa for this Car/ Riviera.


Hummer: Axe or Sell

Saab: Axe or Sell, Unless it does a drastic turnaround soon.

Cadillac: Mainstream Luxury Car Market, Compete with BMW/Mercedes-Benz.

-1-series Competitor
-3 series Competitor
-CTS
-SRX
-Escalade off Lambda w/EXT
-Flagship Roadster (XLR)

Dealerships would go like this:

Chevrolet

Buick/Pontiac

Saturn

Cadillac

Doesn't that look a lot cleaner?

I will think this through a little more, but yeah theres that.

Just my 0.02 cents.

[vibecar]

What car company needs two truck brands? GMC needs to go.

Hummer and Saab have to be sold.

Unfortunately, even if Saturn now has nice cars, the sales are still low after the investment done in the brand.

Here's a streamlined and simple four-brand GM:
Chevrolet / Cadillac / Buick / Pontiac

The four established american brands:
Cadillac: luxury
Chevy: full-lineup + trucks & SUVs
Buick: for China + 2-3 models for North America
Pontiac: 3-4 speciality models to fit between Chevy and Buick.

[stick076]

Killing GMC just shows how dumb the people at GMI are. The brand is the second best selling brand at GM. It only sells trucks and a typical truck buyer is the most stubborn car buyer there is. It has basically 5 products (Savana isn't really a retail seller, more commerical) and sells over 500k vehicles. If GMC is gone, 500k sales are gone. Oh how we forget the past with Oldsmobile.

There is no need to kill GMC, Buick, or Pontiac. There does need to be an elimination of overlap from within the dealerships. Treat the entire dealership as one brand. Giving GMC the Acadia with the Enclave right there was not a good idea especially considering that Chevy didn't get anything.

With Escalade sales crashing, keeping Hummer around may not be a bad thing. It could keep Cadillac looking more like a performance luxury company by selling any of the trucks as a Hummer.

Saab makes money everywhere except the US. It should be a European brand that brings cars into the US like Audi, BMW, etc. If they stop worrying about what the typical US buyer wants, they will sell more cars.

Saturn is out there on its own and lost. Could Saturn and Saabs sell side by side? If Saturn were just Opels with a different badge there would be a nice GM dealership of truly European cars.

Chevy, Cadillac/Hummer, Buick/Pontiac/GMC, Saab/Saturn. That would make 4 "brands" instead of 8. This way there is a mainstream brand, a luxury brand, an uplevel brand, and a European brand. Work on eliminating overlap within brands but not between. Each brand would need to have a full lineup or close to it. This way there is no expensive brand elimination, customers are happy, and dealers are happy as they have a wider range of product with less vehicles.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by vam29

The short answer to the problem is to sell all Brands under one GM roof and to end the subsidies to prop-up one model over the other. Everything will then fall into place very quickly.

That would create pure CHAOS. We are already scratching our heads as to what the difference between a G5 and A cobalt is.. And Cadillac shoppers are looking for a different dealer experience then a Chevy buyer. Everyone agrees there are TOO many dealers... This plan INCREASES them.

[K-1]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Chevy = all-around brand
Saturn = Scion-esque, green brand
Buick = comfy luxury
Cadillac = sporty luxury

Two dealership lines: Chevy/Saturn and Buick/Cadillac.

Sell SAAB and Hummer. Kill Pontiac and GMC.

[Hurricane]

Cutting or realigning brands, while not without some merit, is also not too far removed from merely rearranging the deck chairs on the titantic.

GM has some excellent products right now but they are still few and far between. The CTS is great and the Malibu is good. The Corvette is wonderful. I am sure there are other examples. However...

Aveo - mediocre
Cobalt - mediocre
HHR - mediocre
Equinox - mediocre
Colorado - mediocre
Impala - mediocre
G6 - mediocre
G5 - mediocre
DTS - mediocre
Lucerne - mediocre
LaCrosse - mediocre
Minivans - AWOL

I am sure I missed a few. Argue with this list if you feel like it, but the competition currently exceeds customers expectations by offering more compelling choices against these models. While many new products may be in the pipeline to replace these (Cruze, new LaCrosse, new Equinox, etc.), they aren't here today and customers aren't shopping right now for what is on sale next year or the year after.

Marketing, killing off brands, or even realigning brands won't solve the giant problems and lack of interest to consumers created by lack of competitive product. I am hopeful that 2010 may truly be a turnaround year.

[benroethig]

Originally Posted by Rocket 88

Totally agree.

GM has some work to figure out but killing either Pontiac or Saturn seems like the right course of action. While I am a big Saturn fan (and owner) it seems like GM blew the call when Saturn only sold outdate Ions and the last generation Vue.

I agree and I think it should be both of them. Pontiac died when essentially both Alpha and Zeta died. Saturn is a car brand without a place. The euro imports everyone wants it sell aren't selling. Rebadges are keeping it afloat. GM needs to trim the fat. That also includes sadly GMC and Buick as well. Saab should be sold. As for the international brands, you're dealing with a slippery slope. If GM positions Chevrolet right (with some additions and subtractions depending and market), Holden Opel, and Vauxhall should be redundant as far as products go, but they are very ingrained in the population.

[Brglotus]

As a Saturn owner, I love my Saturn to death but I think out of the whole "Saturn, Pontiac should go ordeal", Pontiac can't and shouldn't go. Pontiac still means to me GTO's, Trans Ams, and Feiro's. If Pontiac offered a great mid or compact sized performace car I would buy it in a heartbeat a "1 series" type car. That is the next gold mine for cars.

[The Law]

Originally Posted by Patate

I don't think GM needs any alliances to survive, they need to cut their legacy costs (they just did it), and put revelant products for everyone. Here's how (my humble opinion)

Chevy: Mainstream
Cadillac: Top of the line PERFORMANCE luxury.. leave FWD to Buick
Now GM understands those 2 brands' mission. It's the rest that is a little more complicated.

I think GM should merge Saturn with Pontiac-Buick-GMC.
Saturn would offer the FWD, crossovers, minivans
Pontiac would offer RWD-only models.. move G6 to the CTS plateform, G5 to the "alpha, I think" plateform, G8 is fine, Solstice, etc... Vibe could go to Saturn or simply stay with Pontiac, either way it's fine.
Buick would be affordable luxury.. they need to move it upscale a little more, to avoid eating Chevy's sales. Now Buick would compete with Infiniti, Acura and entry-Lexus.
GMC, now I have 2 choices for it:
-Either they make it true " professional grade", and make cheap, very low-equipped with low fit and finish versions of the Chevy trucks. The Sierra would be a real work truck, destined for the Fleet sales.. and would be priced a few thousands below the Silverado. OR
-They do the opposite, where the Sierra would be luxury trucks, with its Denali version. Now this would make the Acadia more relevant.. Also, the Silverado would be higher volume which is what GM probably wants. This is why I think the latter idea is the best, but to each his own, I guess.

Drop Hummer, Forget it. Put Saab with Cadillac or simply drop that brand also from the North American market.

I'd say,Put Saab with Caddy; move Saturn into old Saab dealerships and end Pontiac as a brand make it a label for sporty models.