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#196 (permalink) |
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6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Orleans
Drives: 2005 BMW 325i.
Posts: 7,506
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Re: Rumblings & Rants: Saving money, Cutting brands, and what GM SHOULD do to survive
Boy I was glad to see I wasn't the only psycho who had been concocted "ultimate GM lineups" for the past few years!
My first plan to revamp GM's lineup went as far back as the early 1990s, when I wondered what the hell was Saturn all about? Why didn't they use that money to redesign the Cavalier/Sunbird? I saw the Brazilian S10/Blazer and wondered "this should have gone to GMC, not Isuzu". The attractive 97 Grand Prix was introduced... on GM' sloppy W-body platform, completely ruining it. I wondered... "why didn't GM design the GM2800 to be global?" The Grand Prix could have used it. Why was Australia the only place still building American cars??? And as far back as the late 1990s I wondered "Why doesn't GM take the Chevy brand global?" Though this sentiment was driven by my desire to see the US as a major exporter of cars. I watched with dismay as my beloved Buick was dismantled and watered down to a pathetic lineup of utterly awful cars. I wondered why, after buying Saab, launching Saturn, did GM decide to add another brand with Hummer. So, rather than concoct a future GM lineup based on today's product line and brands, for s---s and giggles I decided to do a big "what if" project, starting back at 1992 and progressing through the years to the present. So here's some of the highlights: 1992 Saturn is launched, but not as a brand, as a separate manufacturing company. After all, the entire purpose of Saturn was for GM to learn how to profitably build small cars. They didn't need a sales channel, dealers, etc. for that, just a factory and a new way of building cars. So, in this crazy scheme, Saturn was set up as an independent manufacturing entity, selling small cars to various GM divisions. So Cavvy production would have ended at Lordstown, and that plant would solely build vans. There were three initial "Z-body" cars, all introduced in 1992. The new Cavalier would have styling much like the later '95 redesign (which was originally planned for '92 anyway), and the Z-body Sunbird replacement would take many of its cues from the later Sunfire. The Sunfire moniker would be attached to a shortened, two-seat roadster version of the Sunbird, appearing around '95. The Oldsmobile Saturn would have had the Saturn S-series styling we're all familiar with. Saturn would be a success, teaching GM to build small cars profitably, and once the lessons learned were applied elsewhere in the GM empire, Saturn would be dismantled, and the Spring Hill plant becoming part of GM's regular production program. 1994, 1995 The Sonoma and Jimmy would have used the attractive, squarer Brazilian S10/Isuzu Hombre styling. Isuzu would have simply moved production of its own pickups to the Indiana plant, and eventually dropped. I also tried to save as many shuttered GM plants as possible. Sorry Mexicans, but you guys never get the Silao plant. Instead, GM retool the Ypsilanti, Michigan plant to start building Suburbans and pickups for '95. The former Pontiac East plant, which had been assembling S10 Blazers and Jimmys, would have started building Tahoes and Yukons from '96. Arlington would have kept building B-bodies through MY99. Couldn't save the Tarrytown plant though. U-body van production would move to Doraville, the TransSport would be dropped (except for Canada), and there'd be a luxury "Buick Nimbus" model to compete with Chrysler's T&C. It would feature unique front panels, while the Venture/Silhoutte shared front panels. 1996, 1997 Opel's GM2800 RWD platform would have instead been a global platform, serving as the basis for a host of exciting RWD midsize and fullsize products, helping GM gain much of the ground it had lost in the crucial midsize market. So we'd get a RWD 96 Grand Prix that looked much like the W-body version. A year later, the RWD Bonneville would appear, being essentially a stretched Grand Prix with more formal roofline and cosmetic changes. That year, the Cadillac Seville and Eldorado would have been redesigned and moved to the smaller GM2800 (which I've chosen to call "V-body" for North America) platform, making them more competitive with Euro imports, and sparing us the agonising Catera. Finally, in '97, Buick would move the Regal and Park Avenue to V-body. The Regal would sit between the GP and the Seville, being sold as a sporty coupe and sedan aimed at young executives. The Roadmaster would be dropped with the arrival of the new Park Ave. For '97 there's no Malibu-clone Cutlass. The small Olds is dropped and the Cutlass name is moved to a N/A version of the Opel Vectra (Saturn LS anyone?). For production reasons I had to bump the Intrigue forward to '97. Nevertheless the attempt to aim Olds at import buyers is a failure. The Yukon Denali came about because Cadillac rejected a GM proposal for a luxury variant of the GMT400. In this scheme however, Cadillac goes forward with its plan for a luxury SUV and the Escalade is launched in mid 97, meaning no Yukon Denali, and is redesigned with the rest of the GMT800 SUV lineup for MY2000. I've found an interesting use for the excellent "Denali" name that you'll see later on. 1999 No Alero would appear, instead, Buick would offer a "sport luxury compact" effectively using the Alero/Grand Am body, but "Buickified" and taking styling elements from the larger V-body Regal. The B-body Caprice and Fleetwood are dropped midyear, but Caprice production is moved to the Lansing Craft Centre, where it continues as the "Chevrolet Fleetline", offered only to fleets, giving GM a product to offer in the crucial Law Enforcement and Taxi segments. 2000 The W-body Impala would have been called the Lumina, and Chevrolet would get a G-body Impala, aimed at the Maxima market. It would be a successful product, but helping put the final nails in Olds' coffin. Instead of the hideous W-body Monte Carlo, there’d be a stylish RWD model for 2000, as well as a striking new V-body Buick Riviera, based heavily on the LaCrosse concept (I know, I know, it appeared later, but I needed a RWD Riv for ’00!) GM would publicly announce this year its overhaul plan, with four new FWD platforms, Gamma, Delta, Epsilon, and Lambda and three new RWD platforms, Kappa, Sigma, and Zeta, that would gradually replace all GM's existing platforms beginning in 2002/2003. A new family of modern V6 engines, dubbed “Atlas” would be introduced at year’s end in a new SUV product. It would gradually supplant the OHV 60-degree V6 and stalwart 3800. A new high-tech V8, known as “Zeus” would eventually supplant the Northstar. GM announce its plan to introduce the Chevrolet brand globally and let it be known that there'll be a host of small Chevrolets coming up with an eye on export markets. Also GM’s product line would be globally-based, with special models devised for regional demands: technically simple models for Brazil and ASEAN, and big V8 retro models for North America. GM announce its Brand Identity and dealer integration plan. Buick and Pontiac would be paired, and Pontiac would gradually become the N/A arm of Opel-Holden. China and N/A would co-develop Buicks. GMC’s role would be eventually be that of primarly commercial vehicles and would be paired through various Chevrolet dealers. The newly-acquired Hummer brand wouldn’t become a separate brand but would serve as the styling theme for a host of interesting specialty Chevrolet products. Cadillac dealers are told to shape up or ship out, and dealers scramble to build new cutting-edge facilities for GM’s flagship brand. Sadly there’s no room for Oldsmobile in this great plan, and GM announce that the brand would be withdrawn at the end of the 2003 model year. The Daewoo Situation GM hire IDEA and Pininfarina to style its upcoming globally-themed smaller Chevrolets. Many of these products, such as the Aveo, we’re familiar with as being inherited from Daewoo. But in this wild scheme, they’re designed for GM (and consequently are of vastly better design, using GM platforms/engines, etc.). So Daewoo simply goes belly-up in mid 2001. No takers. No buyers. Nobody wants it. However Daewoo’s creditors are happy to sell GM Daewoo’s plants in India and Poland, which GM buy and turn into major global production centres. Daewoo dealers worldwide are scrambling for something to sell, so GM swoop in and offer them Chevrolet franchises at an attractive price, thus setting up the European Chevy dealer network. So the end result is nearly the same, only the products are better. The Aveo would appear not on ancient hand-me-down platforms and engines, but on the on the Opel Corsa platform and with modern Opel-based engines. The New Chevy Dealers In an attempt to keep GM from having to close too many dealers, I’ve concocted a scheme, suggested by my wife actually, based on my experience when I travelled to Japan in 1984. There, I was surprised to find out customers didn’t just walk into a Toyota dealer and buy a Toyota. Toyota’s models were grouped into one of five different sales channels, each selling a half-dozen models specially tailored to each sales channel’s “theme.” So while many GM dealers would close, many would be kept open, but wouldn’t sell the entire line of Chevrolets. There’s be two new sales channels, one (which I’ve yet to name) would concentrate on FWD family-based products, effectively GM’s answer to Toyota, while a second set of dealers, dubbed “Heritage” would sell the bigger products, in addition to retro-themed small cars, the Corvette and Camaro, and eventually would carry the Silverado and Suburban to keep volume. This allows GM to make up for Oldsmobile’s demise and Pontiac’s loss by having a shored-up Chevrolet line, but keeping Chevy dealers from having to tackle selling 35 different Chevy products! The “Heritage” dealers would also handle the new line of Hummer-themed Chevrolets (the H3 would be launched as the new Blazer, for example) while the regular Chevy dealers would also serve as GMC outlets. This way, we get the Hummers, but without the headache of setting up a separate brand. Not to mention giving the “Heritage” dealers a wider lineup of products. There could possibly be a Hummer brand for export markets, especially markets like Australia, where the Hummer-themed products would make awkward Holdens. A third set of Chevy dealers, dubbed the “Anthem” chain would only exist in remote areas, particularly in Western states, where some remote small towns serve as major commercial centres. Anthem would effectively sell only family cars and trucks, with buyers having to make the 50-mile drive to Superior Junction to buy the niche and specialty Chevys. nadepalma and I seem to have the same idea regarding small-town dealers. Dealers make most of their money on used cars and the service department, so the old “OK” signs would be resurrected and many small-town dealers would become GM “OK” service centres, keeping rural customers happy, not having to take that hour-long drive to Bumpkin Falls to get the LeSabre serviced. I think the nostalgia of “OK” would also likely have more appeal to rural and small town denizens. This was the best way we could figure to tackle the glut of dealers. If not reduce their numbers, change their roles. The Fiat Connection Rather than the botched plan that happened, GM would have inked a technical agreement with Fiat back in 1997, where the two companies would share platform development costs and build on each other’s strengths. Fiat would focus on small-car platforms and small-capacity engines, as well developing the kickass Multijet small Diesels, while GM’s bring its expertise in large cars, larger engines, and automatic transmissions to the table. GM would work with Alfa Romeo to develop small RWD platforms, bringing Alfa back to its former glory, and providing GM with more competent premium small cars. There’d be no exchange of equity between the two companies, and they’d maintain their own production facilities, but rationalisation of parts and shared development costs would serve to benefit both partners. Maserati designers would show Cadillac how to make a sedan handle, while Cadillac would teach Maserati how to make doors fit properly and teach them how to keep interior bits from falling off… The Renaissance I won’t go into all the details, but beginning in earnest for 2003, the GM lineup would be revamped at a remarkable pace. Most of the products we’re now familiar with wouldn’t have ever existed, or would have appeared in different guises. For example, the original Saturn Vue would have been the Chevrolet Equinox (with front styling redolent of the '04 Malibu), an important export product, and many Opel designs would appear, some sourced from Latin America, as Pontiacs. Sorry Poncho fans, I know your dreams of a specialty RWD “performance” brand are dashed, but I’ve given you “Chevy Heritage” as compensation, and hey, Pontiac will still offer products like the Solstice, G8, small RWD sedan and host of other interesting models. I’ve even given you Firebird fans something to get excited over! Cadillac’s alphabet soup would be for export markets only… America would get proper names. And in the next decade, Caddy will begin inching its way up the price/prestige scale. Saab’s lineup would be dramatically expanded, and all Saab production moved to North America. To compensate, Saab are given a much greater role in GM’s engineering. For example, Saab will be given the task of designing all GM’s HVAC systems, making GM’s bodies lighter and stronger, and developing all GM turbocharger and supercharger technology. So despite losing the Trollhattan plant, Saab will actually become a more crucial cog in GM’s gearwheel. Buick’s lineup will be expanded and more focused, becoming a more viable Lexus-Infiniti-Acura competitor, but keeping true to its heritage. GMC will become truly “Professional Grade” selling all GM’s commercial vehicles. I had planned originally to just drop the retail models, but decided to keep the Sierra around, given the strong brand loyalty of GMC customers. With big SUV sales dropping, I’ve contended that dropping the Yukon family might be just a bitter pill to swallow, placing it elsewhere in the GM family, and allowing the GMC brand to begin its new focus. Having white panel vans and luxury SUV’s on the same lot was just too jarring for me. I know GMC is a cash cow, but for how long? I just don’t see Yukon profits rolling in for much longer, so decided to think long-term and move GMC now into its new role. GMC would move from B-P dealers and be sold primarily through Chevrolet’s mainstream channel and possibly “Anthem” dealers. So that’s basically the set up going into the 2003 model year. From there I’ve developed a horde of interesting new models to be introduced each year. I’ll shortly post what the lineup would eventually look like by 2010. Last edited by t-rex : 09-26-2008 at 02:10 AM. |
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#197 (permalink) |
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6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Orleans
Drives: 2005 BMW 325i.
Posts: 7,506
|
Re: Rumblings & Rants: Saving money, Cutting brands, and what GM SHOULD do to survive
Now since I didn’t have the enormous time required to concoct models names, I’ve borrowed many from existing GM models (many of which would never exist in this scheme) for expediency’s sake. Plus some of them seemed to fit better in their new role!
While there’d be a few models to come and go between 2003 and 2010, they’re few in number. This is a tentative list, as I’ve tried to make the plan as realistic as possible; you can’t introduce a new model if there’s no plant to build it in! Yes I’ve actually gone through the trouble of figuring out which plants will build which product, which is actually the biggest challenge in setting this plan up! So by 2010, GM would be looking something like this… Chevrolet
Chevrolet “Heritage”
Corvette (yes I think it should be spun off separate brand; it'd be sold through the Chevy "Heritage" dealers)
Pontiac
Buick
**Updated** Comments, criticisms and suggestions are welcomed! Especially if you can think of some better model names... Last edited by t-rex : 09-26-2008 at 02:09 AM. |
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#198 (permalink) |
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4.6 Liter Northstar V8
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SoCal
Drives: '04 Sierra
'02 Regal GS
"05 PT Cruiser
Posts: 1,543
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Re: Rumblings & Rants: Saving money, Cutting brands, and what GM SHOULD do to survive
I took the approach to minimize overlap but have at least two models from every architecture to maximize customer selection and profits while keeping the overall number of platforms down.
Chevrolet Kei 5D (Matiz) - Gamma Aveo 4D - Gamma Beat/Agila 5D - Gamma Cobalt Coupe - DeltaII Cruze 4D - Delta II Optra Wagon - Delta II VOLT - Delta IIE Monza Wagon (Kappa Nomad Concept) - Alpha Monte Carlo - Epsilon SWB Malibu 4D - Epsilon LWB Camaro - Zeta Impala - Zeta Impala Estate - Zeta Corvette - Kappa7 Trucks Groove - Gamma Vue/Meriva - Gamma Orlando - DeltaII HHR - DeltaII Zafira Van - DeltaII Equinox - ThetaE Colorado - GMT700 T-Blazer - GMT700 Astro/Vivano - Alpha Traverse - Lambda Tahoe - GMT900 Suburban - GMT900 Avalanche - GMT900 Silverado - GMT900 Cheyenne - GMT900HD Express Van - GMT900HD Buick (B-P-G) Skylark 4D - DeltaII Insignia Avant - Epsilon SWB LaCrosse - Epsilon LWB Gran Sport - Sigma Electra - Zeta LWB SUV's Rendezvous 7P - ThetaE Enclave - Lambda Pontiac (B-P-G) G3/Corsa 3D & 5D - Gamma G5/Barina Coupe - Gamma G6/Calibra Coupe - DeltaII G6/Twin Top HTC - DeltaII Vibe (as is) Solstice Roadster - Kappa7 Firebird Coupe - Alpha GTO/Monaro - Alpha Grand Prix 4D/Torana - Alpha Truck G8 ST - Zeta GMC (B-P-G) - GMC becomes GM's Global Truck/SUV brand and is offered with Cadillac/Chevrolet/Daewoo/Holden/Opel/Vauxhall brands outside U.S. Trax - Gamma Combo - Gamma Montana - Gamma Terrain - DeltaII Jimmy H4 2D - GMT700 Jimmy H3 4D - GMT700 X-Treme - Alpha Envoy 5P - Alpha Acadia - Zeta Denali - Zeta Savana Van - Zeta Safari H2 - GMT900 Yukon/XL Denali - GMT900 Sierra/Denali - GMT900 Kodiak - GMT900HD Cadillac BTS 4D - Alpha CTS Coupe/4D/Wgn - Sigma SLS - Zeta LWB XLR - Kappa7 SUV/Truck SRX - Alpha Evoq - Lambda Escalade - Zeta Escalade EXT - GMT900 If SAAB and Saturn survive SAAB 9-1 Sonett - Gamma 9-3 3D/5D/Combi - DeltaII 9-5 Convert/4D/5D - Epsilon 9-4X - ThetaE Saturn Sky/Tigra - Gamma Aura 4D - Gamma Vue - Gamma (Chevy would offer Meriva) This lineup minimizes duplication and "fits" brands with global counterparts and by moving HUMMER models to GMC and making GMC the global truck/SUV brand GM only has to make one "Global" model that can be sold with any other GM brand in any other market except the U.S. and Canada where they would remain with B-P-G. GMC will remain GM's best cash provider as long as it remains with the B-P-G channel and wll increase profits delivered when the Buick and Pontiac lineups improve. The "Kappa7" would be the next gen Vette and be used for the next Solstice (and Opel GT) since the Vette is setup as a Convertible, but the Solstice would not offer V8 engines. Last edited by SierraGS : 09-20-2008 at 10:34 PM. |
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#199 (permalink) |
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2.5L Iron Duke
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Luxembourg/Europe
Drives: 9-3 II, convertible, hirsch 221 HP, MY04/2007
Posts: 29
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Re: Rumblings & Rants: Saving money, Cutting brands, and what GM SHOULD do to survive
SAAB
9-1 Sonett - Gamma 9-3 3D/5D/Combi - DeltaII 9-5 Convert/4D/5D - Epsilon 9-4X - ThetaE I fully agree with you ! but I would add : 9-1 3D/5D/convert/combi 9-3 convert, coupé 9-5 combi 9-7 2 seaters roadster convert and hardtop awd as option for all model range
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francis from Luxembourg/Europe |
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#201 (permalink) | |
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2.4 Liter SIDI ECOTEC
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: PG County, MD
Drives: '06 Nissan Altima 3.5SL
Posts: 425
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Re: Rumblings & Rants: Saving money, Cutting brands, and what GM SHOULD do to survive
Quote:
![]() What GM was always good at, and what brought them to "power" so to speak was the idea of being everything to everyone. This was never a poor business strategy. I think the name, General Motors, even suggests that GM has mass-market intentions. What got them into trouble was removing the distinctions between each brand and making each brand everything to everyone. IMO it is not only okay but preferable to keep all eight brands in NA because they can all be focused better. That means more models for each brand in keeping with a global framework AND their individual brand identities. There needs to be a plan to strategically allocate platforms/powertrains across all brands that doesn't seem to change with the tide. SierraGS has one. T-Rex has one. And I have a huge Excel Workbook full of GM product plans. Sometimes it just feels like GM just doesn't have a plan like say Ford for example. I guess what I'm looking for is a long-term strategy for product development. Is that too much to ask? With this GM's brands can operate as maybe 3 different companies that can achieve greater economies of scale with shared architectures/engines/transmissions/etc than say Toyota or Hyundai. The profit should not come from selling the most copies of a single car. It should come from selling the most overall volume on the least number of platforms. (Of course this is debatable and I'd like to hear alternate theories). ps-T-rex, you aren't the only psycho with an ultimate GM lineup. I have only really been interested in GM since '05/'06 my senior year of hs, but since then I've actually been updating my own. Now, I'm working on a time-phased implimentation of technologies from eflex and 2-modes to turbos and hcci across the lineup given financial constraints. I think I'd like to try that factory idea of your's though.
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Family garage: '06 Nissan Altima 3.5SL (me/dad) '04 Nissan Maxima 3.5SL (mom/sister) '09 Buick Enclave CXL FWD (grandparents) see it here '95 Cadillac DeVille (spare) Last edited by jkr2106 : 09-26-2008 at 07:39 AM. |
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#202 (permalink) |
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Walking
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Danbury, CT
Drives: none yet, still saving =)
Posts: 2
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Re: Rumblings & Rants: Saving money, Cutting brands, and what GM SHOULD do to survive
Couldn't have said it better myself. Im pretty sure that your opinions reflect those of many GM followers. Now, if only we could get the head- honcho's up there at GM to listen....
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#203 (permalink) | |
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GMI Europe Correspondent
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 13,830
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Re: Rumblings & Rants: Saving money, Cutting brands, and what GM SHOULD do to survive
Quote:
Here are examples of things GM needs to rectify first: 1. With the launch of the new LaCrosse, GM will essentially offer 4 flavours, some better some worse, of the same midsize sedan car concept in North America. At the same time, you can't get a midsize wagon from GM. 2. Actually, in North America you can't get an actual wagon of any size from GM (compact MPVs such as the HHR or Vibe do not count) 3. GM is competing internally with itself in the compact executive market with the Saab 9-3 and the laughable Cadillac BLS, and will soon add to the fire with the all-new 9-3 and small Cadillac (that nobody asked for). At the same time, GM doesn't offer a large luxury Cadillac worth recommending. 4. Ever tried to get a coupe from Saab or Cadillac (that is finally to change)? 5. How many flavours of Theta can you get? THAT SAID, name one as off-road capable, or at least oriented, as the related Vitara... 6. GM's leisure activity vehicle (Opel Combo) is the oldest offering in the market and rather completely covered by cobwebs by now. 7. GM does not build a regular-size minivan anymore, but it builds four flavours of a large crossover. 8. Try to get a small GM sportscar that is not a roadster. ...and the list goes on |
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