Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

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Thread: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

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    Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    Link: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/06...v8-diesel.html

    Last year, General Motors shelved plans to offer a 4.5-liter V-8 Duramax light-duty diesel engine in its half-ton pickups as the market for personal-use pickup trucks shrank, the U.S. economy nosedived and GM went into survival mode by shedding brands and restructuring.

    Now, with signs that truck sales and the economy have turned a corner and GM refocused on its smaller product portfolio, some at GM wonder if the 4.5-liter Duramax could be revived to play a broader role, not just in light-duty pickups but in the automaker’s revamped heavy-duty trucks, too.

    “The 4.5-liter V-8 is fully developed and ready,” said Mark Cieslak, GM’s full-size truck chief engineer. “[If we decided to offer it] we could launch it in a heartbeat.”

    Also driving the decision to possibly pull the 4.5-liter Duramax off the shelf are tough new EPA fuel economy regulations for light-duty cars and trucks that are being phased in between now and 2016, and a new push to create fuel-efficiency standards for medium-duty and heavy-duty trucks – including pickups over 8,500 pounds gross vehicle weight – that would go into effect starting with the 2014 model year. Medium-duty and heavy-duty trucks aren’t required to carry EPA fuel economy ratings today.

    “Fuel economy is top-of-mind in every vehicle discussion we have today inside GM,” Cieslak said. “Every powertrain discussion, we are breathing fuel economy.”

    That has GM’s truck team wondering about using the 4.5-liter V-8 in GM’s HD pickups.

    “The 4.5-liter V-8 is a legitimate contender for the 2500 segment, but are customers and [the economic environment] ready for it?” said Cieslak and Gary Arvan, Duramax chief engineer.

    “[The 4.5-liter Duramax] could get a few miles per gallon more [than the 6.6 Duramax],” Arvan said. “It’s a high-performance diesel with a high level of work capability and fuel economy.”

    The 4.5-liter V-8 might be a better choice for those who don’t need maximum capability from an HD pickup but still need a truck that’s tougher than a half-ton. It wouldn’t necessarily be compromise. It’s as strong as HD diesels were just a decade ago and more sophisticated.

    “[The 4.5-liter Duramax] would have launched [with power ratings] about where the Duramax was in 2001 when it was introduced,” Arvan said.

    Even if the 4.5-liter Duramax cost less than the $8,395 6.6-liter Duramax (including Allison 6-speed automatic transmission), it would carry a higher premium over the standard 6.0-liter V-8 in GM’s HD pickups. Offering the 4.5-liter in GM’s light-duty pickup trucks too (as originally intended) might help make the business case that finally brings this engine to market.

    Full article at link.

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    Re: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    QUESTION:

    Let's say you are in the market for a new full size GM truck (Silverado, Tahoe or even Surburban).

    Would you be willing to pay an additional (let's estimate) $5,000 for the 4.5L duramax diesel engine?

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    Re: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Perian View Post
    QUESTION:

    Let's say you are in the market for a new full size GM truck (Silverado, Tahoe or even Surburban).

    Would you be willing to pay an additional (let's estimate) $5,000 for the 4.5L duramax diesel engine?
    If I had the cash, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

    Bring on the 1500HD. And diesel-powered Yukons/Tahoes/Yukon XLs/Suburbans.

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    Re: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    Diesel done right is better than gas for trucks.

    Hell, diesel done right is as good or better than many gas engines in cars.

    Problem is, only Europe really understands how to harness the performance and fuel economy capabilities in diesel engines.

    I would love for GM to revive the 4.5 duramax program. I can picture it in a Camaro too..... gobs and gobs of low end torque out of a small, lightweight engine and 25+ mpg.

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    Re: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    Do it.
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    Re: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    I think this is an example of new GM revisiting ideas and projects from old GM. If they made sense then, they may make sense now. 2 Mode, hybrids, ultra V8, direct injection LS V8s, zeta and so on, including the 4.5. If the Duramax 4.5 makes sense, they should do it, and quickly.

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    Re: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Perian View Post
    QUESTION:

    Let's say you are in the market for a new full size GM truck (Silverado, Tahoe or even Surburban).

    Would you be willing to pay an additional (let's estimate) $5,000 for the 4.5L duramax diesel engine?

    YES!

    I would replace my 2002 2500 Dmax with a 4.5 in a heartbeat. As mentioned in the article, my truck does everything I want it to. I would stay with my current HP and TQ and get better mileage? (I am expecting low to mid 20's with this motor) Sign me up.

    The only thing that I want to see is the TQ curve - I want to ensure that there is sufficient grunt down low to get the truck/trailer started from a stop. Since it is a diesel I think it would be OK, but I never did see a HP/TQ curve for this motor, I would want to compare that to my LB7 and the new 6.6.

    If they do drop this motor in an HD I wonder which tranny they would use? The Allison would be my preference, but I could see them going with the in house 6 speed to save some $$ and reduce the sticker on the truck. GM if you are reading this - give us a choice of the two transmissions, or just go with the Allison.

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    Re: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    How about Yukon and Suburban for this engine?

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    Re: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    Agree they should offer this in the full size SUV as well.

    I personally wouldn't buy this truck, as I'm firmly in the camp of manual transmissions only for trucks (which means I won't be buying a new GM truck anytime soon). I do know someone though who recently sold an older F150, and really wants a new pickup but is waiting until there is a half-ton diesel on the market.

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    Re: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    I like the idea of bringing the 4.5 back. It's a nice alternative to the 6.6.

    That being said, medium duty trucks ALREADY have a diesel option. Adding an alternative diesel option isn't going to generate a massive number of additional diesel sales. Thus, GM can say "American's don't buy diesels." What GM REALLY needs to do is offer the 2.0 diesel in a mainstream compact or midsize car and/or offer the 2.9l diesel in one or more of the lambdas. If it did that (reasonably priced -- like $2K premium, which would be in line with what the Euro makes are charging in the US), then I think the public would respond favorably.

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    Re: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Perian View Post
    QUESTION:

    Let's say you are in the market for a new full size GM truck (Silverado, Tahoe or even Surburban).

    Would you be willing to pay an additional (let's estimate) $5,000 for the 4.5L duramax diesel engine?
    What percentage of HD sales are the $8,000 Duramax option? Quite a bit I'd wager. And for those whom don't really need the capacity of a 6.6 oil-burner, that 4.5 hits all the right marks: better power and mileage than the gas v8, and for those towing 25' campers or single car trailers, this is THE perfect size engine.
    I think it'll be a winner, especially if it goes into 1/2 ton trucks and suburbans (please, please, EVERY suburban buyer who tows a trailer will pay and buy this thing. It's a money maker and winner).
    DO IT.
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    Re: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Perian View Post
    QUESTION:

    Let's say you are in the market for a new full size GM truck (Silverado, Tahoe or even Surburban).

    Would you be willing to pay an additional (let's estimate) $5,000 for the 4.5L duramax diesel engine?
    I'll qualify my answer by saying that I'm unlikely to buy new regardless. I'll most likely be buying a 2500 Suburban in a few years but will be looking at used 2010 models or newer. If a 4.5L diesel were available to me used I'd gladly pay a few grand more for it.

    My dad has a 2006 Silverado, 2500HD Duramax/Allison, and I know for certain he'd give up some power and torque for better fuel economy. He pulls a 10k+ lb 5th wheel and readily admits he has more power and torque than he needs. He used to pull it with a 6.0L gas motor. He loves the diesel and likes the fuel economy he gets but he'd certainly give up a little torque for more economy. I'm sure he's not alone. Many long time diesel fans buy for the fuel economy and many of those people have been turned off by the worsening fuel economy of the diesels as they have gotten more powerful and added more emmissions equipment.

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    Re: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Perian View Post
    QUESTION:

    Let's say you are in the market for a new full size GM truck (Silverado, Tahoe or even Surburban).

    Would you be willing to pay an additional (let's estimate) $5,000 for the 4.5L duramax diesel engine?
    it's $8,400 for the 6.6 including transmission. the tranny is about $2500 (if not more) and the 4.5 is less expensive. the 6.0 is around $4000. so we're talking a premium of no more than $2000 (or what the market can bear).

    so the question is: who would pay $2000 for 25% better economy, 300 hp and 600 lb-ft?

    i'm glad they're thinking of reviving this. i'm sure gary and mark were more than disappointed after working so hard only to have it shelved.

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    Re: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by fastball View Post
    Diesel done right is better than gas for trucks.

    Hell, diesel done right is as good or better than many gas engines in cars.

    Problem is, only Europe really understands how to harness the performance and fuel economy capabilities in diesel engines.

    I would love for GM to revive the 4.5 duramax program. I can picture it in a Camaro too..... gobs and gobs of low end torque out of a small, lightweight engine and 25+ mpg.

    I think America is poised and ready for it.

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    Re: Report: GM Ponders Reviving 4.5L Duramax Diesel Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by WishIhadatruck View Post
    Many long time diesel fans buy for the fuel economy and many of those people have been turned off by the worsening fuel economy of the diesels as they have gotten more powerful and added more emmissions equipment.
    You nailed it - I am part of this group. Back when I bought my truck in 2002 diesel was cheaper than gasoline and there was a clear advantage in mileage over a gas powered truck.

    Now diesel is more expensive and the MPG difference isn't as great (empty). There used to be guys on the internet forums that would run the math and show everyone how a diesel would pay for itself - I can't recall anyone making that claim that for in the last 4 years. (Since ULSD and the emmissions equip came into play)

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