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QOTD: “Detroit is trying to make us work in a tuxedo.”

4K views 36 replies 25 participants last post by  skylark68 
#1 ·
The Wall Street Journal
May 11, 2017


Photo Credit: Jaguar USA; New generation system in 2018 Jaguar XF.

Your New Car’s Best Tech Feature May Be the ‘System Off’ Button

Buggy software, touchy touch screens baffle drivers; ‘then the beeping started’

Jonna Miller, a Houston obstetrician, has delivered babies for 17 years, some births trickier than others. But getting from point A to point B using BMW’s navigation system, she said, is too complicated to bother with.

Dr. Miller, 48 years old, has been on the losing end of a technological tug of war with her 2015 640i coupe. The voice-activated cellphone-calling system refuses to recognize her husband’s name. Safety sensors needlessly beep every time she backs out of her garage or passes through the carwash.

A BMW spokesperson said sensors for the parking-assistance system “can be turned off simply by pressing one button.”

Even so, Dr. Miller’s complaints echo other drivers who long for the days when the only console controls were for the heater and radio. “This might be why I buy a used car in the future,” Dr. Miller said.

Auto makers have come to rely on car tech for a disproportionate amount of profit. As they load up their vehicles with gizmos and gadgets, however, they’re leaving some drivers dazed and confused—even driving them to attend twohour demonstration seminars.

Ron Iseman, a retired Air Force intelligence officer living in Ormond Beach, Fla., quit using his Acura RDX’s built-in navigation system after it told him to take a left turn at a red light—into a pond. Imagine, he said, “if it had been night and the light had been green.” He disabled the car’s lane-keep assistance feature, which beeps when drivers stray from their lanes, after the warning turned into a nag.

The new safety-infotainment industrial complex is intended to reduce risk and make drivers’ lives easier—a good idea when it all works.

T.G. “Terry” Barrett and his wife, Janet Nickles, of Pine Top, Ky., bought matching Honda Civics last year loaded with a full complement of digital features. Soon after, the touch screens on Mr. Barrett’s car went haywire, scrolling wildly and shutting on and off untouched, he said.

Then the beeping started. Constant beeping, he said, with no way to stop it. His wife’s car chimed in with its own beeping.

The local Honda dealership rebooted the system several times, updated the software and replaced the entire touch panel. Still, the beeping. “This has been going on for more than a year now,” Mr. Barrett said.

He was told another software upgrade wasn’t quite ready. Car makers, he said, are “moving too fast and want to sell things before the bugs are worked out.”

Honda said in a written statement: “The screen supplier has corrected the issue in new production, and there will soon be a software update” for existing vehicles.

AutoTrader.com, a car-buying website, polled more than 1,000 car owners recently about car tech and more than a third said they wanted only standard features.

A similar study by Deloitte found advanced dashboard apps to help find parking spaces or connect with other smartphones were among a vehicle’s least useful features.

Many American consumers believe the inability to deliver reliable dashboard features casts doubt on the auto industry being able to engineer self-driving cars that won’t crash, the Deloitte study found.

The learning curve for new models seems to steepen every year, along with driver complaints. Getting customers up to speed “is one of the biggest challenges we have,” said Bill Fay, the Toyota brand’s U.S. chief, whose work follows him home. His wife, he confessed, struggles with new features.

“I’ll show her and she says. ‘I still don’t know how to work this,’ ” he said. “Eventually, we make progress.”

On a rainy night in Topsham, Maine, a dozen new-car owners huddled in the service garage of Lee Toyota for a 90minute tutorial. Lured by free sandwiches, they heard about dashboard controls and crashprevention features.

“It’s not designed to drive the car for you,” service manager Eric Muchmore warned, though Toyota’s new lane-keep assistance feature in fact steers the car back into the lane when drivers stray. For backup sensors to work in the winter, he advised, you should brush snow off the tiny circular indentations on the bumper. Some jotted notes; one woman knitted.

“If you aren’t a person who uses technology at home, you are just lost,” said Mary Louise Seldenfleur, 80 years old, who bought a 2017 Toyota Camry.

At Mercedes-Benz of Fairfield, in Fairfield, Calif., product experts spend as much as two hours reviewing gadgetry with new buyers, said General Manager Mo Ayubyar. The dealership offers home visits from so-called product concierges.

Once upon a time, Mr. Ayubyar recalled, “I’d say, ‘Here are the keys. Call me if you have any questions.’” Now, tech specialists supplement the sales team.

Doug Cooper, a rancher north of Casper, Wyo., refuses to buy a new truck, training or not. He mostly uses his pickups on dirt roads and muddy fields, no place for finicky sensors or fancy electronics that balloon the sticker price.

Backup cameras are particularly vulnerable on the range, he said. Mr. Cooper once tried to help a friend load an elk into the truck bed, he said, and had trouble removing the tailgate because of all the camera wiring.

“One doesn’t paint the house in a little black dress,” he said. “Detroit is trying to make us work in a tuxedo.”



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#2 ·


I have four vehicles, each with expensive factory navigation systems.

What do I use when I travel? Well my trusty Garmin 51 of course. Love it!

You wonder why these in-dash control systems can't be less complicated. Does anyone really use all of the features? Don't we simply want to plug in our phones and drive?

Apple Car-Play is a step in the right direction, in my opinion. Let's hope future systems make life easier and safer for drivers.


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#4 ·
"AutoTrader.com, a car-buying website, polled more than 1,000 car owners recently about car tech and more than a third said they wanted only standard features."

Sorry, but that also reads "two thirds of car buyers prefer more technology in their vehicles.".

I get it guys, faulty tech and nanny features are annoying. But the fact is, most new car buyers, especially younger demographics, want more tech. Just read this article, the youngest person used as an example was nearly 50 years old...

Older people may not like the new tech features, but as stated multiple times in the article, most of these "annoying" features can be disabled, often with the "push of a single button" as in the BMW. If anything, this article demonstrates just how lazy people are. They would rather go on the record and whine in a news article, or even purchase a new "used" vehicle simply because they can't be bothered to push a button... These ancient troglodytes are the same neanderthals who from their perch in Washington, have legislated all these safety regulations that practically mandate all these "annoying" features.

If only social security would run out fast enough...
 
#23 ·
"AutoTrader.com, a car-buying website, polled more than 1,000 car owners recently about car tech and more than a third said they wanted only standard features."

Sorry, but that also reads "two thirds of car buyers prefer more technology in their vehicles.".

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Not true. You are working from a false dichotomy. The possible choices are not just "more tech" or "less tech." Other possible choices are "the same amount of tech," "don't know," and "don't care."

However, a third of the market is a huge portion of the market, and can't be ignored.
 
#6 ·
My Mazda6 nav system is about on a par with Tom Tom of a generation or two ago. Tom Tom being the worst of the three common Nav systems out there.

The Garmin is going back in, the factory "nav" is amazingly primitive and incompetent.
 
#8 ·
A lot of this basically boils down to car companies not knowing how to design a good user interface if their life depended on it (which it sort of does). But some car companies (esp. some of the smaller manufacturers) do get it. It's really not that hard to design a good interface for a car. And once you experience one of the good ones, you wonder why it's so hard for everyone else.
 
#11 · (Edited)
But some car companies (esp. some of the smaller manufacturers) do get it. It's really not that hard to design a good interface for a car. And once you experience one of the good ones, you wonder why it's so hard for everyone else.
I've actually found the opposite to be true. The latest generation of systems in the bigger car companies like GM and Toyota seem to have slightly more intuitive infotainment systems (with some exceptions) at least based on the rentals I get almost weekly. CUE, Sync/Touch, and Mylink had pretty big flaws when they came out, but they've come a VERY long way in the past 12-18 months.

Between our Honda and our Subaru, we have a pair of really horrible infotainment setups in our cars. Honda is slightly better, but I think it' a slightly newer design. The Subaru is just horrible.
 
#9 ·
The Nav in our Outback is complete dog$hit. It's clunky, can't be programmed by the passenger when the car is moving.

The infotainment systems from Toyota, Chrysler, and Chevrolet in the rentals that I've had were so much better. MyLink is pretty easy to use. I also got a chance to use the latest CUE interface, and it was also a very good setup (vastly superior to older CUE systems), but it has features that I would NEVER use and functionality that I would never even think to consider.
 
#15 ·
My way of avoiding ridiculous tech is to buy base models of cars, they never have all the electronic gizmos--which clearly are part of the distracted-driving problem. Death rate on the roads is up for the first time in decades.
 
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#35 ·
Dannyg: I am with you on this. Aside from an automatic in certain cases, everything I need or will ever use is included in even the most modest model.

Not anti tech, I just have no need for anything more than what's included in the base model. They're all "fully equipped" these days.
 
#16 ·
I'm 50+ years old and love the technology in my '17 Malibu Premier. The Chevy MyLink interface is as easy to use as any smart phone, I've had no glitches with it at all. It's easy to configure too.

As for the built-in navigation, I would not have ponied up for it as a separate option but it works pretty well, in some ways better than Google Maps or Mapquest. If I want to use Google Maps anyways, Android Auto allows it to mimic for the most part an integrated nav system in the car. So, best of both worlds you could say.

One advantage with with the in-car system is it seems to grab the GPS signal better than the phone and it also has some extra information in the display that isn't in Google Maps. I also like that I get the turn-by-turn alerts in the center IP display.
 
#17 ·
This 2016 Malibu Premier driver is considerably older than 50. However, I agree with my younger compatriot. I use an iPhone rather than an Android Phone, and thus, I use Apple Car Play. The MyLink navigation map is very nice looking, but it is missing many minor roads and highways. Apple Maps is not nearly so nice looking, but it has just about every highway, road, and cow trail in use. But, MyLink has a few tricks. Today, I was low on fuel when I touched the screen. Up popped all nearby filling stations and the driving distance to each.

I am a technical person by vocation and by avocation. However, I do not believe in technology for technology's sake. There are some technical decisions in modern cars that I do not like--at all. Rotary shifter, I see you!. As for my Malibu, its technology has dramatically improved my driving experience.
 
#19 ·
There is no small amount of hubris in this post. In an ideal world, everyone would pay attention to this or her driving. However, it is not an ideal world. What is more, each driver controls exactly one vehicle and nothing else. We don't control other drivers--many of whom are not nearly as skilled and attentive as we are. We don't control in attentive pedestrians or animals that may suddenly and unexpectedly jump into our paths.

Technology cannot save us from all dangers, but it can save us from some. If it saves one dent, then the technology has served a useful purpose.
 
#20 ·
^^^^I think Ill get over it, although I do now have one of those nifty mandated backup cameras of which I find to be somewhat useful and at times a PITA distraction of sorts because one still needs to pay attention to the sides of the vehicle and the clearance of the rear view mirrors and such. JMHO:)^^^^
 
#21 ·
I bought my Captiva brand new in 2011 and the sat nav has been the worst system ive ever used, had the system replaced it still didn't work properly.
I review lots of new cars and some them the sensors and stuff are so sensitive that i turn them off because they are annoying the Impreza im driving this week keeps telling me im out of the lane even if i'm still in it just because i've moved the wheel fraction. 1 of the Volvos i drove was so sensitive the parking sensors were going off while I was sitting in traffic.
I'm getting lots of people asking me to suggest cars for them that aren't loaded to the gills with tech because they find it annoying, distacting and not worth the extra money they charge you for it.
 
#27 ·
I bought my Captiva brand new in 2011 and the sat nav has been the worst system ive ever used, had the system replaced it still didn't work properly.
I review lots of new cars and some them the sensors and stuff are so sensitive that i turn them off because they are annoying the Impreza im driving this week keeps telling me im out of the lane even if i'm still in it just because i've moved the wheel fraction. 1 of the Volvos i drove was so sensitive the parking sensors were going off while I was sitting in traffic.
I'm getting lots of people asking me to suggest cars for them that aren't loaded to the gills with tech because they find it annoying, distracting and not worth the extra money they charge you for it.
IMHO this is a LOT of driving the "hate" for TECH in NEW cars

I was driving a RAM 1500 with the 8 inch infotainment system and to change the HVAC vent settings you have to use the display there is NO button to cycle through the mode change fan and heat yes / force defrost yes BUT wanting it to blow on floor ETC look at navi screen hit home then hit HVAC then hit the option I want THAT to me is a DESIGN failure AND a safety hazard

the RAM ECO forums are full of complainers and the 8 inch HVAC system is one of the BIG complaints

IMHO I WOULD Want the "fancy" radio with car play AND like radar cruise BUT do NOT want lane drift lights or blind spot lights ETC BUT it usually ALL or NOTHING
 
#32 · (Edited)
edit: I just plugged my Garmin 2598 back in. It is WAY smarter than the Mazduh nav:

It knows my speed.
It knows my direction.
It knows the latest speed limits.
It knows what street I'm driving down.

Maz knows nothing of any of that. Pretty damn odd.



I'll have to check it out. Mazda, of course, is apparently not a major manna-fature hence no Apple CarPlay. KIA's had it in the Souls since MY 2014.

I'm starting to wonder if I made the right decision, Optima vs. Maz6.

https://www.apple.com/ios/carplay/



I have four vehicles, each with expensive factory navigation systems.

What do I use when I travel? Well my trusty Garmin 51 of course. Love it!

You wonder why these in-dash control systems can't be less complicated. Does anyone really use all of the features? Don't we simply want to plug in our phones and drive?

Apple Car-Play is a step in the right direction, in my opinion. Let's hope future systems make life easier and safer for drivers.


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Garmin is the cat's meow.

Because someone either doesn't know their a from their e, or some geek LOVES complex and doesn't give a rip about the schmucks downstream who live and operate devices and vehicles in the real world, not a windowless lab somewhere.

A lot of this basically boils down to car companies not knowing how to design a good user interface if their life depended on it (which it sort of does). But some car companies (esp. some of the smaller manufacturers) do get it. It's really not that hard to design a good interface for a car. And once you experience one of the good ones, you wonder why it's so hard for everyone else.
Makes you wonder.

This is why I don't think ditching the factory nav in favor of a "Phone as Nav" approach is such a bad idea.
My Maz6 factory nav is limited by its own list of streets in any city/town. I was looking for a County Road, named County Road, in some backwater recently. The only way to locate in the Maz nav is spell the road name out.
Sorry, it had three streets in its wee memory that started with C, and none was what I needed.
Trusty iPhone 5S had no problem finding it. Type in address, it KNOWS. :doh:

I should probably look at a 6, I could use a bigger screen for nav purposes but I don't think the tech is much zippier from what I've been told.
Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not a geek.

Absolutely.

Want leather? Then you'll NEED the Tech package which enables you to reverse without looking. Oh and heated seats, now you'll need the Convenience pack which watches the road so you don't have to.
The main reason I went for the mid-range Maz6 vs. the base was to get dual zone. Which my wife has yet to use.
Which requires s'noof etc. and takes the car from about 23-24 to 29 grand. Plus the 19" wheels come with the up-models, the jury's still out on cost/benefit ratio.

I"ve already read enough "OVERENTHUSIASTIC BRAKING SYSTEM!" stories to not fire up the auto-braking systems, or the fix-your-lane-wandering. Really, if you can't stay in your lane you should get a bicycle. They have lanes too but you're not likely to kill/maim someone if you wander.

It's another market ripe for disruption by a certain fruit company in Cupertino.

Using CarPlay for the first time in Europe, inadvertently, when I plugged in phone, the UX was simply eye-opening in its simplicity. It's the "It just works" mantra.
That is crazy talk. Who cares if it works, if you get the impression that you're on the bridge of the Starship Enterprise when you light it up?
 
#28 ·
I laugh as, for most of my life, you had to drive to a pay phone if you needed to contact anyone for any reason, there was no Navigation, and everybody was fine with it.

And it is credibly debatable that people are better served with the new current tech.

I'm no Luddite, but if you are basing your car purchase in any way on the infotainment system, you are missing the greater parts of vehicle ownership.


Silly rabbits.
 
#33 ·
I am glad that I have no use for Nav in my car. I know my way around the existing areas of the city pretty well and if it is a new place I have visit then there is every chance it hasn't made it to either directories or navs yet.
I have had a look at a couple of systems in cars and i wonder why people bother with some of them. It would be easier to print a page from Google maps or similar before you leave home.
 
#37 ·
My vision of a fully loaded car is a '70 Electra 225 with power seats, AM/FM radio, power windows, power brakes, and power steering. Don't forget the torque monster 455. I can't stand all the "tech" features in new cars.
 
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