Precedent says Wagoner should leave

[Bvonscott]

I'm getting pretty sick and tired of Buickman's personal headhunt for Wagoner.

[Aveyello]

If Wagoner was that bad as a CEO, GM would have filed Chapter 11 three years ago. It's quite an accomplishment he's been able to keep GM going this long given the legacy business model he's had to work with.

It's time for him to go as much as it's time for Buick to go as far as I'm concerned.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by Bvonscott

I'm getting pretty sick and tired of Buickman's personal headhunt for Wagoner.

you're not the only one as per my friend Jim Ziegler who writes:


Let me tell you, he has their attention at GM. He’s met with the topper-most of the topper-most of General Motors’ executives. He has them lying awake at night tossing and turning. I promise you he haunts their dreams. His sole mission in life is to get General Motors to adopt his “Return to Greatness” thesis. (It is detailed and complex, filling many pages. You can find Dollinger’s writings at http://www.GeneralWatch.com.)

Well, I gotta tell ya. I’ve spent hours looking over what Dollinger has written and, truthfully, I believe the majority (not all by any means) of what he says will work and will immediately restore a lot of GM’s lost market share. As a matter of fact—remember this guy has only targeted General Motors because that’s where he lives—his ideas would also work for Ford or any manufacturer whose executives would take a moment or two to remove their heads from the deep, warm, moist dark recess in which they’ve placed them.

You want to see something well thought-out by someone who has a clue? I am inviting every dealer, no matter what you sell, to check out Dollinger’s plan. It’s time all of us, every make and model, import or domestic, to send the manufacturers a message:

“We’re tired of your silly incompetence and mismanagement…get out of the retail end of the business…stop interfering…get out of our way and we’ll save your worthless ungrateful butts one more time.”

[TuffG929]

Originally Posted by Buickman

glad to see some people aren't taking stupid pills. nice post.

You should try looking in the mirror sometime buddy. The picture ain't pretty. In Japan for example, executives are routinely given decades to turn a companies fortunes. In America it seems like it's five years then your out. I guess it's to be expected when some of us can't see 5 minutes ahead or behind.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by Aveyello

If Wagoner was that bad as a CEO, GM would have filed Chapter 11 three years ago. It's quite an accomplishment he's been able to keep GM going this long given the legacy business model he's had to work with.

It's time for him to go as much as it's time for Buick to go as far as I'm concerned.

welcome to GMIN, it's a great place, good people, lots of fun. some advice tho, stay in the shallow end til you learn a bit more about GM.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by TuffG929

You should try looking in the mirror sometime buddy. The picture ain't pretty. In Japan for example, executives are routinely given decades to turn a companies fortunes. In America it seems like it's five years then your out. I guess it's to be expected when some of us can't see 5 minutes ahead or behind.

ah, but Red Ink Rick did turn our fortunes (value from $66B to less than $2B) and alas that is the problem. in the last fifteen years the guy has been CFO, head of NAO, COO, CEO, and Chairman. sorry Rickster but time's up!

[03xtreme]

Originally Posted by Buickman

ah, but Red Ink Rick did turn our fortunes (value from $66B to less than $2B) and alas that is the problem. in the last fifteen years the guy has been CFO, head of NAO, COO, CEO, and Chairman. sorry Rickster but time's up!

no, of course no one else is responsible for creating labor that gm nor the uaw could compete with with out cutting lifestyle in half....

blame rick.

[TuffG929]

Originally Posted by 03xtreme

no, of course no one else is responsible for creating labor that gm nor the uaw could compete with with out cutting lifestyle in half....

blame rick.

THANK YOU. GM's problems are way deeper than who holds the top post. GM's problems are about a haf a century old. Rick was just youngin' back then. Oh and Buickman, get over Olds; everyone else has.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by TuffG929

THANK YOU. GM's problems are way deeper than who holds the top post. GM's problems are about a haf a century old. Rick was just youngin' back then. Oh and Buickman, get over Olds; everyone else has.

sure, and let's get over having a General Motors, most of the country has. thanks to you Rick.

[TuffG929]

Originally Posted by Buickman

sure, and let's get over having a General Motors, most of the country has. thanks to you Rick.

If it's all Rick's fault-- I mean the legacy costs, the maturing market, the credit crunch and what not-- then why are are Chrysler and Ford also looking down the barrel? Surely Rick didn't oversee their finances.

[TuffG929]

Originally Posted by Bvonscott

I'm getting pretty sick and tired of Buickman's personal headhunt for Wagoner.

[Quickening]

You know, I didn't always agree with Buickman. But at this point...he seems to be the only one with a head on his shoulders and is getting recognition in the media. Which doesn't make him instantly qualified...but I agree Wagoner needs to go. And I don't see anyone else presenting ideas to steer GM. I use to support Wagoner, but he just hasn't implemented things quick enough, or has gone back on sound decision (Insignia/Aura debacle)...and he is banking while the company is bankrupt...that is not right.

Hope all works for you Buickman, I'm rooting for ya.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by Quickening

You know, I didn't always agree with Buickman. But at this point...he seems to be the only one with a head on his shoulders and is getting recognition in the media. Which doesn't make him instantly qualified...but I agree Wagoner needs to go. And I don't see anyone else presenting ideas to steer GM. I use to support Wagoner, but he just hasn't implemented things quick enough, or has gone back on sound decision (Insignia/Aura debacle)...and he is banking while the company is bankrupt...that is not right.

Hope all works for you Buickman, I'm rooting for ya.

thanks my brother. it hasn't been easy fighting this battle. much time and personal expense involved, but I truly believe in GM and will put forth my best effort at saving it. the words of encouragement are deeply appreciated.

[63GrandSport001]

I use to root for the man as well, talk about how the problems GM has our not his fault but hes working to right things.

However after what has happened its been a bunch of mixed results, yes GM is now developing much better products and has improved the way they engineer them. However the fear at the time this was being done was it will be a little too late to save GM (at least thats what I always worried).

What it comes down to is that while yes GM has gotten better at producing the products they sell GM still made the poor choice that its been making since the 1960s which got it in this situation in the first place. The corporate culture at GM just has to change and things will not turn around until that happens, lower labor costs and etc..... won't save GM as many people oddly think it will if no one wants to buy the products they are making. GM ran their business in the most recent by getting people to buy vehicles that they really didn't need and they put all of their eggs in one basket.

The fact that the other two are in a similar situation and made similar choices and this really gets down to the corporate climate in America. We can't have GM be as successful as Toyota if they are not being run in a similar fashion from the top. Ive talked to engineers and designers who work for or use to work for GM and they have pretty much been saying the same things. These CEOs are treated as if they are leaders of a nation or some kind of god I mean Rick can't fly on anything other then a private jet because we are worried about his safety. In a successful Japanese company the CEO is just another laborer which is why he seems to make much better choices then his American counterpart. CEO to worker pay ratios have gotten way out of hand and American CEOs seem to be more happy with keeping wall street happy and their shareholders then the products that they make. Rick should make a million a year tops and GM should only pay for business class plane tickets for him and if he wants a private jet he should pay for it with his own money.

I don't see how GM will survive even if it makes it through this tough patch its just going to end up in the same situation. They can fire all of their UAW workers and move all of their plants overseas but if you don't fix whats actually wrong with GM and what has gotten it in this situation its only going to end right back where it started.

[Aveyello]

Originally Posted by Buickman

welcome to GMIN, it's a great place, good people, lots of fun. some advice tho, stay in the shallow end til you learn a bit more about GM.

Awww... shucks, Uncle Buick. I appreciate your concern for my well-being, but I don't need to wear swimmies thank you very much. I'll try to get my post-count up to be more reflective of my decades of experience in the auto industry.

The still-attached entrails of GM's legacy (union and franchise agreements, primarily) is what holds back GM's future - not Rick Wagoner personally. All those brands and structural costs strapped to it's back... it wouldn't matter if Edward Deming and Harley Earl came back from the dead to run GM. While Wagoner may be too stigmatized to stay, your obsession with him doesn't make your case for his removal any stronger.