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NYT Feature: Two Pontiac Fieros for Want of a Ferrari

7K views 38 replies 24 participants last post by  GHull3 
#1 ·
The New York Times

November 26, 2014



NOTE: See Slide Show at link.

Article Quotes:

“I love Ferraris, but I didn’t think I’d be buying one anytime soon,” he said.

Mr. Taveras grew up in Manhattan and the Bronx, where his first car, a Pontiac Firebird, was stolen. While shopping for a new one, something else caught his eye at the Pontiac dealership.

“I saw the Fiero GT on a brochure and knew that was my car,” he said. “To me, it was like a semiexotic.”

The Fiero shared its midengine layout, with the motor between the rear wheels and the cabin, with exotic cars like Ferraris and Lamborghinis. But it was closer in stature to the Toyota MR2 and Bertone X1/9 — originally known as the Fiat X1/9 — two other relatively affordable midengine runabouts.

The Fiero was in its final year in 1988, and with inventory scarce Mr. Taveras had to settle for a car with an automatic transmission rather than the 5-speed manual he wanted. He paid about $17,000 for a red GT, the top-of-line model with a V6 engine and a fastback roofline distinct from the standard car’s notchback design. It was his first new car.

When his Fiero was stolen six years later, Mr. Taveras replaced it with a 4-cylinder version, but that car proved unsatisfying. “It was slow, and the transmission was horrendous,” he said.

He then bought a 1988 Fiero Formula, a model that packaged the GT’s V6 engine and performance upgrades in the standard body. The last-year versions are the most desirable Fieros, he explained, because they gained a new suspension that addressed criticisms of the car’s clunky handling and harsh ride.

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“Pontiac designed that suspension for the first year, but G.M. wouldn’t give them the money to build it,” said Mr. Taveras, who is immersed in Fiero history.

In his view, General Motors’ internal politics blocked Pontiac’s plans to make the Fiero a more capable sports car. As Mr. Tavares tells it, Chevrolet lobbied to preserve its Corvette as the company’s performance-image leader, and those efforts kept Pontiac from giving the Fiero anything more powerful than a Chevy-designed, 140-horsepower 2.8-liter V6. The standard engine, a coarse Pontiac 4-cylinder known as the Iron Duke, made some 45 fewer horses.

Mr. Taveras next showed off his large two-car garage. He called it a main selling point for the house that he and his wife, Noemi Galloza, a nurse, bought five years ago in a quiet suburban pocket of this city. The couple spent spare time over three years converting it into a workshop for the Fiero — or Fieros. Mr. Taveras owns two.

Parked next to his red Fiero Formula, which is undergoing a restoration, is a red 1988 GT nearly identical to the one stolen from him two decades ago. This one, too, has an automatic transmission, but also the bonus of the optional T-top roof with removable panels. He bought the GT eight years ago and restored it, doing all the mechanical work himself.
 
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#2 ·
Looking at the instrument panel, it seems that a Hummer designer owned a Fiero. Wow, talk about square.

What a disaster this car was. I remember how hot it was when it first came out - the equal to today's new Corvette. Dealers could not add enough rust-proofing to a mostly composite vehicle.

Of course, the GM bean-counters - not to mention the product planners at Chevrolet - had their way, and just as the Fiero's problems were fixed, down came the guillotine.

Lessons learned? Let's hope so. Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
 
#5 ·
 
#6 · (Edited)
Remember that the goal of the Fiero was to make a cheap, sporty-looking commuter car...everyone saw it and found out it was MR and suddenly had to be an affordable exotic...

Then you have crazy mo-fo's like this who swap in Cadillac 500/8.2L's into them (longitudinally :eek:)

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/060995.html
 
#9 ·
The fiero v6 was a fun little slot car for its day. With just 140 hp I'm not sure I'd chase one down and restore but this guy seems happy...

I believe the maf design was one of the culprits that wouldn't easily allow hot rodding of the v6....

The quad four probably would have Been a better way to go...

Always a pretty car...
 
#10 ·
Two cars stolen... hope he doesn't live anywhere near the new Cadillac headquarters... their prototypes will disappear!

HUUUUGE Fiero fan here, my screenname should attest to that! Only ever had one, a not-gently used 1984 2M4, and while it didn't last me very long until the 2nd engine ground its timing gear teeth into a lovely fine powder, I still loved it and would buy another. It required attention to drive fast (well as fast as a 95 hp Fiero would go!) through the twisties, but that's what made it so much damn fun. And while it was far from a well-honed driving machine (at least in base form), it was very well planted.
 
#11 ·
I sat in a brand new one in the showroom when I was 15 when my mom was buying a car in 1986. I was hooked from that point on. I have never stopped wanting one.

I would love to have a notchback. I like the GT, but that's what everyone wants, and I like to be different.

Swap in a Cobalt SS Supercharged Ecotec, and a 6 speed manual, GT suspension, and call me happy. :)
 
#12 ·
One of the best looking cars from the era! GM was always on the verge of greatness with their product, but their rotten internal structure ensured only mediocre product came out. Absolutely bizarre that GM managed to make it into the 2000's before falling into bankruptcy.

Would the quad 4 have been the answer? I never drove the original version, I recall it being powerful, but very harsh/shaking - everything with it got ripped apart.
 
#24 ·
I agree that Fiero was perhaps the best looking GM car of the era (next to the Camaro). Pontiac had a long history of slipping things past GM's upper management, from the GTO days right up to the Fiero, which although sold as a 2 passenger "commuter car", in reality was a platform that Pontiac fully intended to challenge the Corvette in an incremental fashion.

Two things about Fiero many probably don't know.

First, the "Iron Duke" engine is basically the left side of Pontiac's 301 V8, sharing not just bore and stroke, but also pistons, piston rings and connecting rods.

Second, Pontiac already had the next (third) generation Fiero body ready, and the first prototypes made when the decision was made to kill it. Much of the design migrated over to other key GM sports and sporty cars.





Two cars stolen... hope he doesn't live anywhere near the new Cadillac headquarters... their prototypes will disappear!
Cadillac's marketing and main office will be in New York. Engineering and the prototypes will be based, made and mostly stored around Detroit as they are today.

You traded a Trans Am for a Fiero? Oh man!
Although today the current value and scarcity of late 70s Trans Ams make the notion of trading one in on a Fiero in the early 80s downright seem ludicrous, back then it wasn't far fetched at all..... There were a gazillion 77 Trans Ams around back then selling for about a dime a dozen, Fuel prices had gone up to roughly todays equivalent of $5 per gallon, we were just coming out of yet another recession, and having a mid engine, 2 passenger car that didn't cost as much as a Ferrari was a big deal at the time.

Similarly, the idea of selling a 1966 Mustang Fastback for a 71 Chevrolet Vega seems equally insane today, till you realize because Ford sold so many of them and they were so dated in the early 70s, that every used car lot had than for a song.

It's hard to predict what's going to be the next classic or sought after car. Back then, money would have been on the Fiero.
 
#14 ·
My best buddy owned a 2M4 a few years ago for a while. He had the Iron Duke with the "performance" 4 speed manual which turned high RPM's (so much for I-696 fuel economy) but it was pretty quick and handled well
 
#15 ·
GM hasn't changed the subframe in 30 years. pretty much any engine they've made will fit the Fiero.

I always thought the LE5 2.4L Ecotec - slightly modded - would make an excellent, lightweight, good handling car. Lighter than the iron duke, more power than the V6. V8s destroy the weight balance.

ucan even use modern interior trim...
 
#18 ·
I traded a 77 T/A in perfect low mileage condition for a Black Fiero new in I believe 1983-1985???, (too long ago to remember) when they first came out, lot of fun to drive. First time I turned it on wet pavement and gave it a little too much gas it swung around damn near a full circle on me. Real heavy in the rear end.
 
#28 · (Edited)
I was in a 1984 Fiero M2/4 that blew to smashing pieces on Gerald R. Ford Freeway in Grand Rapids, MI over 20 years ago during a winter whiteout storm. It was my best friend's car that he had just acquired as his graduation present the summer before. It was in a 30 car pileup with nothing left of it after that. It was a very cool car for a 18 year old at the time. Very rudimentary, however. Everything said is true.

Classics are very hard to predict. I can't think of any American cars from the 80's outside of maybe the Buick GNX. Is the NSX going to be a classic? I don't even know. Maybe the Alex Zanardi edition? Outside of maybe the Honda S2000 CR, I can't think of anything from the 2000's production wise (baring a couple special Porsches, the Ford GT, Viper ACR and maybe the ZR1).

The problem is my generation (Gen X) will be the last generation to ever collect cars in the traditional sense of the word. It's unfortunate, but today's vehicles are, for the most part, rehashed ideas, which doesn't lend to collectability. Furthermore, Gen Y just doesn't have an interest in cultivating an automotive culture. They don't even care to drive, let alone "own" a car. There is little automotive passion within this group and zero motorsport passion. A car or truck is a necessary evil to them. They are too engrossed within virtual reality "cyber space" to even care.

That's my prediction. Take it or leave it.
 
#31 · (Edited)
West Michigan snow can suck, that's for sure.

Then again, the vast majority of cars from all era's aren't really collectible or interesting to start with but those are the ones that tend to get maintained enough to be preserved. For every Mach 1 Mustang there were a few dozen base I6 automatic Mustangs. For every Chevelle SS there were loads of plain jane I6 sedans and wagons. For every '57 Bel Air there were tons of 210's. For every '80s GNX there were hundreds of fwd A-body Century's...scrapping rates on the majority of models are really high but convertibles and performance models tend to be saved (depends though...like there are hardly any '71-76 full size Chevrolets still in existence but plenty of Buicks and Cadillacs, likely due to paint quality which is my theory).

Generation Y/Millenials seem to be losing interest in cars but I think the perception is skewed as in every generation there are tons of people who only see cars as appliances, and tons of cars produced to serve just that function. Watch any movie set in the '50s and it would seem like half the cars in existence were convertibles, or go to any car show...

And I was born in 1987 and would consider myself to be of Generation Y and am definitely into cars, among other vehicles
 
#29 ·
Another interesting factor to consider is how these cars will be kept running as time goes on. '60s and '70s muscle cars were nowhere near as dependent on electronics as '80s and '90s cars are. Once the parts supply dries up, you won't be able to find or fabricate many of the electronic/electrical parts needed to keep the cars running. It will be interesting to see how people end up dealing with this issue.

The MKIV Supra seems to be an instant classic/collectible, as certain clean late model cars are currently going for more than their original sticker prices. Of course pristine stock 1997 ITR's and possibly 1999-2000 models as well will be of high "classic" value in the decades to come. Might even be more of a classic than a stock low mileage NSX of the same year. We'll see.
 
#34 ·
Another interesting factor to consider is how these cars will be kept running as time goes on. '60s and '70s muscle cars were nowhere near as dependent on electronics as '80s and '90s cars are. Once the parts supply dries up, you won't be able to find or fabricate many of the electronic/electrical parts needed to keep the cars running. It will be interesting to see how people end up dealing with this issue..
Consider that today's cars are far and away more durable than cars of the 60s and 70s.

Warranties back then lasted 90 days, not the 5 years we have today. In the 70s, a car with 50,000 miles was passed up on used car lots, and at 70,000 miles, a car was on it's last legs, and about a half step from a junk yard. Today, 70,000 miles means your first tuneup and most cars easily last 175,000 miles. Even my 89 T-Bird SCs all reached over 220k miles. As far as today's electronics, in most instances the cars will be falling apart before the engine electronics start to go. Replacing the other electronics can most likely be done today by kids with access to computer parts, so no telling what they'll be able to do by the time a ZL1 Camaro needs new electronic interface for it's magna-shocks.

I'm guessing it will take a lot longer for cars to become collectable or rare, but at the same time, I'd think that with the way electronics and computers progress, anything that may need to be replaced in the distant future on these cars will be essentially upgrades much like we do to computers today.

Sorry, but that's a numbskull point of view. I had a 1985-1/2 Fiero GT and it is one of the fondest memory cars of my life. It was a terrific car once the V6 came out, even before it was supposedly "fixed" by the 1988. Much quieter and stiffer feeling chassis than my 1987 Corvette that followed it.

Wish I still had that car. And I wish I had this guy's 1988 T-top. The MR2 of the day was highly overrated, and the Fiero was underrated by the car mags.
MR2 was a rushed (and uglier IMHO) rip off of the Fiero. But back then, everything from Japan walked on water.
 
#38 ·
My brother in law bought his first new car in 1984 and guess what? It was a Fiero or as he soon called it, "Fiasco"! One problem lead to another and another and another and ..., well I think you get the idea. And like was noted earlier, GM finally got things right in the last year which it always seems to do. My wife (whose brother bought the Fiasco) had bought a 1977 Chevy Vega as her first car. It was slightly used when she bought it, but well cared for. We kept that car until 1990 after putting some 260,000 miles on it. The kid who bought it from us put another 85K on it. It may still be running for all we know!!! But that car was well built and durable. And yes, the original engine was still in it with over 340,000 miles on it.
 
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