North American Car and Truck of the Year contenders announced

[Caleb02]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

Ya, ok.

i knew you would see it my way, now do you want some kool-aid?

[chevypowa670]

Originally Posted by Olds88

Wow is this list messed up. Things that aren't trucks include the FX, Murano, Forester, Tiguan, etc. The X6 is a no more a truck than a Malibu Maxx. A Mercury Grand Marquis is more of a truck than an X6.


2002, Chevrolet introduces the Avalanche, built off of a Suburban, sharing Suburban's rear coil over shock suspension.


More interesting is that the Flex is listed as a car despite the fact that it will outperform the X6 in just about any "truck" metric.


What has the Ram introduced? Its suspension was done in 2002 by Avalanche. The interior still isn't up to the GMT900 standard. The new HEMI is sweet but the Vortec 6200 still beats it.


You have two cars listed there.

My vote is for Challenger and F150.



They usually don't give COTY to expensive cars, so I'd rule out the V and GTR just on that basis. My vote is for the Challenger, reinventing muscle for a modern era.


And what praytell does the Borrego offer that make it so compelling?



F150 will win TOTY because of its fuel efficiency improvements and class leading tow/haul capacities. I agree X6 should not even be in the TOTY category, its a damn hatchback, not even a CUV. I disagree with the G8 though, it hasn't had near the impact the 300C did when it was introduced.

couldn't have said it better myself olds, there is no way the dodge ram is getting TOTY sure it has more power, better looks and now maybe even a better ride but IMO its going to be very hard for the judges to look past the F-150's MPG's.

the New HEMI is solid as well but as old's mentioned the 6.2 vortec would woop it, i wish GM would grow a pair and offer it in more then just one cab configuration and trim level

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Olds88

Genesis is derivative but also groundbreaking. Its a counterpart to the Pontiac G8. G8 gives you the performance and world class suspension of a 550i and Genesis gives you the luxury.

I love how we see the word luxury plastered all over these forums in regards to the Genesis but often times they say STS and in some cases CTS isn't luxury. I've driven the Genesis and it certainly doesn't have the feeling of a luxury vehicle, it just has the looks.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by fp115

Actually I agree, the Genesis looks like a rip off of a bunch of other vehicles. Yet is still missing the quality fit and finish you would see from a luxury automaker.

How so? What's missing? I'm not seeing anything in reviews to indicate that it's missing anything.

Originally Posted by Olds88

My point wasn't that the Avalanche was better than the Ram in all aspects (though for a 4-door passenger-use pickup its second to none), simply that Dodge didn't innovate anything with the rear suspension. Chevy also attempted it back in the 60s I believe.

As far as powertrains go you're off there too. The Avalanche is available with a 315hp Vortec 5300 or 366hp L76 (which will be 400hp when the 6.2L replaces the 6.0 across the board, already has in Tahoe). The 5.3 fuel economy is better than Ram's too. The sticker on mine says 14/20 with the LMG 5300.

Yes Ram does offer more configurations than a short box crew cab, however the vast majority of trucks purchased for passenger use are short box crew cab (50% of 1/2 tons sold are crew cab). A crew cab Hemi ram will cost you just as much as a similarly equipped Avalanche. Avalanche also gives you a more luxurious interior.

Its also worth mentioning Avalanche's unique features that are useful.
1) Locking tailgate
2) Removable hard bed cover
3) The mid-gate. I use it more than I ever thought I would
4) SUV suspension tuning makes for a softer ride (although the payload/towing suffers as a result).

Don't get me wrong the Ram is a fine truck and I'd probably own it if Avalanche didn't exist, but it didn't innovate anything.

The Avalanche has slightly better 2wd fuel economy, but with less power. The Ram 4WD Hemi does beat the Avalanche 4WD for fuel economy and power both.

I did know that a Ram crew cab is $32,000 to start. But for the 50% of the half ton buyers that do not get a crew cab, that's still an awful lot of people who benefit from all the Ram's other features for a lower price.

You do make a good argument, though.

Still, I'd say the Ram is now near best in segment. I'm not sure that's enough for Truck of the Year, but other than the Vue Hybrid nothing else listed really impresses me as being noteworthy either. ( Like I said before, the Traverse is great, but it's too close to the Enclave to be really new or innovative.)

[Buick61]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

The Avalanche has slightly better 2wd fuel economy, but with less power. The Ram 4WD Hemi does beat the Avalanche 4WD for fuel economy and power both.

You must have missed my previous post:

Originally Posted by Buick61

It's the same as the Ram's.

For 2009, the 2wd, 390hp/407lb-ft 5.7L Hemi-powered Ram is rated at 14/20. The 2wd, 320hp/340lb-ft 5.3L Vortec-powered Avalanche is rated at 14/20.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by fp115

2010 will be a much more interesting year :P

Yes it will.

- from the gitgo.

Flex = car.

- but yet.....

Traverse = truck

Infiniti FX 35/50 = truck

Subaru Forester = truck

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

How so? What's missing? I'm not seeing anything in reviews to indicate that it's missing anything.

The handling isn't nearly smooth enough to be a luxury car, buttons all over the car don't have a luxury feel to them, the sound of the car isn't at all luxurious, overall fit and finish isn't perfect and has a few imperfections,... overall better than what Hyundai has produced in the past, but still missing those finishing touches for it to be a worthy luxury competitor.

[New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66]

What?!!!

BMW X6
Chevrolet Traverse
Honda Pilot
Infiniti FX 35/50
Kia Borrego
Mercedes-Benz ML320 BlueTec
Nissan Murano
Saturn Vue Hybrid
Subaru Forester
Volkswagen Tiguan

As truck of the year?!!! WTF!!!

These are not trucks!!!

What land am I living in?

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by Buick61

You must have missed my previous post:

I'm sorry, I did catch your previous post. The 2009 Ram Hemi 2WD regular cab is rated for mileage 14/20, same as the Avalanche. But if you want the same seating as the Avalanche you need the 2009 Ram Hemi 2WD crew cab, and that's rated 14/19. So the Avalanche wins by 1 mpg highway - but it's down 70-80 horsepower (according to Yahoo Autos, at least, the 2008 Avalanche is rated for 320 horsepower by the 2009 is rated for 310).

Originally Posted by New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66

What?!!!

BMW X6
Chevrolet Traverse
Honda Pilot
Infiniti FX 35/50
Kia Borrego
Mercedes-Benz ML320 BlueTec
Nissan Murano
Saturn Vue Hybrid
Subaru Forester
Volkswagen Tiguan

As truck of the year?!!! WTF!!!

These are not trucks!!!

What land am I living in?

The Borrego is body-on-frame.

But be reasonable. If body-on-frame was the requirement for "Truck of the Year", how many contenders would there be? This year it would be three - Borrego, Ram, F-150. Last year would have been the Tundra, Sequoia, and ... I'm not sure if there were any others. 2007 would have been the Silverado/Sierra and Tahoe/Suburban/Escalade/Yukon.

There just aren't that many body-on-frame trucks left. To make "Truck of the Year" a competition between a lot of vehicles, you have to include unibody vehicles.

[Caleb02]

Originally Posted by Rocket 88

You can put lipstick on an AMC Eagle, but its still a PIG..Er Pit Bull... I mean Hockey Mom. No! Its the Ultimate Driving Machine...

the amc eagle had a true 4wd option on a bof so it is a truck, it is sad today their are very few bofs

[Caleb02]

next thing you know they will say they will only have auto of the year, which will include all autos with no sub categories. i think they should on do the autos of the year for the american companies ford and gm (not chrysler as they are 19.9% owned by germans)

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by Caleb02

i think they should on do the autos of the year for the american companies ford and gm (not chrysler as they are 19.9% owned by germans)

How is that better?