New product isn't only thing enlivening Big 3

[coolcaddy]

New product isn't only thing enlivening Big 3, it's attitude, too
By Daniel Howes / The Detroit News

Here's the question that trumps all others for Detroit's automakers: When will the improvements in their new cars and trucks break the cycle of disrespect still bedeviling them?

Probably not soon enough to lighten the load of their balance sheets. But the respect will return because Detroit's new metal, arriving in showrooms right now, is getting too good to ignore.

This is not about weighty "legacy costs," or the comparative disadvantages of unions or the health-care burdens that German and Japanese competitors don't really have. Detroit's deliverance from its past rides on the wheels of its products, not regulators or politicians.

Those paying attention see hometown automakers catching and, in some cases, passing their competition. The depressing thing, at least for Detroit's auto bosses, is that recognition of the change has yet to reach the critical inflection point where Detroit is cool again.

But it will.

Chrysler's 300C is the latest in a string of products from DaimlerChrysler AG's North American unit that grows more impressive with each new model. The distinctive Crossfire roadster. The Dodge Magnum. Another Grand Cherokee.

The renaissance of GM's Cadillac is Detroit's best brand turnaround story in a decade. New models - the Chevy Equinox SUV, the Cadillac STS, the Pontiac G6 - are moving off dealer lots without the help of profit-killing incentives. And the upgraded interiors GM is preparing for its new cars and trucks will vault it from also-ran to world-class leader.

Ford's F-150 pickup is the standard by which others are judged. Residual values for the blue-oval's Five Hundred sedan, the first serious counter-attack in the midsize family car market since the Taurus debuted nearly 20 years ago, and the Freestyle crossover, are far higher than the vehicles they're replacing.

The point here is that too many of us spend too much time focusing on what Detroit hasn't done, can't do and doesn't get and not enough time on what it's doing right, how it's doing it and where it's headed.

I know the counter-arguments: Detroit will never equal Toyota and Honda on quality and reliability. Detroit cannot match the product investment coming from Toyota because Detroit doesn't have the cash. Detroit is woefully behind in the race for alternative-fuel vehicles. And Detroit has lost the battle for industry domination but it just doesn't know it.

Baloney.

If GM can spend $4 billion to bring Cadillac back from the dead or Chrysler can offer powertrains that people actually respect or Ford can field the first gasoline-electric hybrid SUV, anything can happen.

The two biggest killers in this business are arrogance and complacency - made-in-Detroit products for a lot of years. Those qualities better describe techie BMWs that take the driving out of the "ultimate driving machine," or Toyota's U.S.-based execs who sound more like cocky old Detroit hands than the humble managers they purport to be.

This game is far from over.

source

[coolcaddy]

This passage particularly struck me as the pertinent to a lot of the discussions we have around here:

The point here is that too many of us spend too much time focusing on what Detroit hasn't done, can't do and doesn't get and not enough time on what it's doing right, how it's doing it and where it's headed.

I know the counter-arguments: Detroit will never equal Toyota and Honda on quality and reliability. Detroit cannot match the product investment coming from Toyota because Detroit doesn't have the cash. Detroit is woefully behind in the race for alternative-fuel vehicles. And Detroit has lost the battle for industry domination but it just doesn't know it.

Baloney.

If GM can spend $4 billion to bring Cadillac back from the dead or Chrysler can offer powertrains that people actually respect or Ford can field the first gasoline-electric hybrid SUV, anything can happen.

I realize this is only the writer's opinion, but I share it. B)

[R.E Sanchez]

Originally posted by coolcaddy@Oct 3 2004, 03:49 PM
This passage particularly struck me as the pertinent to a lot of the discussions we have around here:

I realize this is only the writer's opinion, but I share it. B)

I share it too. Its very well put.

[tgagneguam]

The two biggest killers in this business are arrogance and complacency - made-in-Detroit products for a lot of years. Those qualities better describe techie BMWs that take the driving out of the "ultimate driving machine," or Toyota's U.S.-based execs who sound more like cocky old Detroit hands than the humble managers they purport to be.

I've always submitted to the thinking that arrogance and complacency will bring down great companies. I believe that many US companies that were considered unstoppable threats and potential targets of antitrust laws - USX; Sears, Roebuck & Company; IBM; American Express; and even GM - had the biggest hand in their own undoing. Not a single one of these companies, who for a while were at the top of their games, can say the same thing today. That's why I also believe the government really has to do nothing to stop WalMart or Microsoft; they'll eventually become their own worst enemies.

And it's not purely an American invention. I believe that Toyota will [eventually] stumble, not simply because there's a chance its competitors will start to offer comparable vehicles consistently. It will come more as a result of simple arrogance and complacency. Jim Press, Toyota USA COO, drips arrogance when he speaks of Toyota's US operations, and I fully encourage it!

[mrfunji]

It's too bad that we only read about Big-3 praise in the Detroit newspapers.

[Erunion]

Product, Product, Product.

[zaxxis]

Originally posted by Erunion@Oct 3 2004, 05:39 PM
Product, Product, Product.

Perception, Product, Perception.

The world has seen millions of good products die due to bad perception of a company. If GM/Ford do not start dealing with the HUGE perception that customers have that they need to offer huge discounts to move product, quality product won't help.

Anyone can sell crap if it's made to look like gold. Nobody can sell gold if everyone thinks it's crap. It's more important to make everything see gold when it is gold.

-Z

[GM_Guy81]

thats a good article, and it makes some good points. With the quality thing, I just wish he hand pointed out that GM as a whole is on par with toyota and honda, and a couple divisions (buick in particular) get BETTER reliability ratings than Toyota.

[big swede]

Detroit can and will produce some excellent products that I am excited to see but is a little premature of this writer to whine that it's only the perception that is bad. This poor perception didn't happen overnight so your not going to get rid of it overnight. It's ridiculous to create 3 or 4 near class leading models out of 3 massive companies and then whine that it is only perception holding you back.

Quit politicking and keep working hard to produce great cars and you will get a lot of the people back that you have lost over the years by making average cars.

[marinerbc]

Originally posted by zaxxis@Oct 3 2004, 10:45 AM
Perception, Product, Perception.

The world has seen millions of good products die due to bad perception of a company.  If GM/Ford do not start dealing with the HUGE perception that customers have that they need to offer huge discounts to move product, quality product won't help.

Anyone can sell crap if it's made to look like gold. Nobody can sell gold if everyone thinks it's crap. It's more important to make everything see gold when it is gold.

-Z

You've hit the nail on the head.

Case in point: yesterday, we renewed the insurance on one of our GM vehicles. When the agent saw the make year and model, she asked, "Are you sure you want that much coverage on a domestic car?" I was furious, but I decided to try to beat her at her own game.

I asked what she drove, which turned out to be a Toyota Echo. (Are we surprised, sports fans?) I asked what other vehicles she had looked at when she was shopping for it, and the answer was the Honda Civic, which she didn't like. I asked why she didn't look at a GM vehicle, and she answered that her mother had an '89 Ford Tempo that had quite a few problems. I pointed out that GM did not manufacture the Ford Tempo; she said that she realized that, but they (domestics) were all the same. I wished her luck with her Honda, at which she became quite agitated and said "I have a Toyota!". I asked why she saw a difference between Toyota and Honda, but not between GM and Ford.

She saw my point. We then compared the superior warranty from GM, superior customer service, superior roadside assistance (Toyota's costs $$$ she said) and how she saw a car as part of her life. (To her, it's an appliance) She said that she would look at ONE GM car, the next time she went car shopping.

We bought the insurance from her anyway, even though she is probably fibbing about looking at a single GM car next time around.

The moral of the story is that GM has a big job ahead, namely to change people's minds. The lies and mistruths are out there, and that has to change, by producing better cars than Toyota's (refrigerators) or Honda's (cookie cutters).

[big swede]

Originally posted by marinerbc@Oct 3 2004, 09:01 PM
The moral of the story is that GM has a big job ahead, namely to change people's minds. The lies and mistruths are out there, and that has to change, by producing better cars than Toyota's (refrigerators) or Honda's (cookie cutters).

I agree and it will take years of making great cars to start to change the tide. Sure you will have your domestic followers jump on every morsel of positive news so they can justify their purchases but it will take years for the average car buyer to believe there has been a change.

I hope the domestic manufacturers realize this because I will get old listening to all the whining every time they release a decent product that they think is a homerun and it only sells marginally (Malibu).

[VivienM]

Originally posted by marinerbc@Oct 3 2004, 05:01 PM
Case in point: yesterday, we renewed the insurance on one of our GM vehicles. When the agent saw the make year and model, she asked, "Are you sure you want that much coverage on a domestic car?" I was furious, but I decided to try to beat her at her own game.

Now I understand why GM offers car insurance here... they probably got tired of insurance agents badmouthing their products.

[GMFAN85]

Originally posted by laserwizard@Oct 3 2004, 03:30 PM
First, the STS and G6 have hardly been on the lots long enough to even conclude they are moving off lots without the help of incentives. This is a factually tepid conclusion that could be said about every NEW model. This is not an accurate statement taken in the context of what the author is trying to suggest.

Second, the Equinox is probably the FIRST chevrolet in ages that is any good (not counting the Corvette since it never wears the Chevrolet label). I'm sure there are incentives from the Corporation to dealers to move each vehicle in the GM lineup which makes the entire statement factually inaccurate and knowingly telling information that is untrue.

Third, Cadillac is NOT Detroit's best brand turnaround in a decade thought it has made quite a mythology more than substance. There are not record sales of Cadillacs; merely returning to the level of 1990 which is hardly an accomplishment. I would contend that there is no Detroit turnaround in progress at all since even Cadillacs are being sold with incentives. When a division can sell vehicles without relying on bribery, then the product, not the bribery should be celebrated.

This article doesn't even substantiate its premise that there is even a new attitude in Detroit. I've seen this same attitude of offering products which WE ARE TOLD are better than the foreign companies but never are. There is nothing in the Detroit lineup save for Full-sized trucks and SUV's that is better (even the new material) than the Japanese. Not one new Ford, GM, or Chrysler product is superior in its class on performance and value.

It is laughable to say that a new attitude has happened in Detroit when the Ford 500 has one engine that is as powerful as a G6 that is nearly as powerful as a $30,000 Cadillac; it is laughable that Ford cannot offer an optional engine in the 500 or that the G6 is confined to one bodystyle at introduction. It is disgusting that the same attitude of badge engineering is still the practice at GM and Ford with the CSV's, the Freestar, and the Monterey to mention a few. It is also a far cry from a different attitude to see mediocrity at Saturn with its entire lineup of underwhelming vehicles and GM killing a division that handly outsold Saturn every year.

Nothing has changed in Detroit except the eroding marketshare that has happened to Ford, GM, and Chrysler. Maybe what we see is a START, but it is far too early to conclude anything has changed. Heck, Bob Lutz of GM has promised so much in the half decade or so that he has been with GM that we have still not seen a vast improvement of the quality of design except for removal of plastic cladding. When Cobores and Azteks persist and Ions still remain fundamentally flawed vehicles with new grills and a performance option for a car with no interior room (not to mention awful ergonomics) and Malibus still look like someone forgot to add headlights until the last thing, GM hasn't offered us style. They've blown more smoke up our collectively backsides.

No revolution yet. Only an errant shot.

First, While I agree that it's too soon to count the sales, this statement is based on the the early attention these vehicles are receiving. Usually, when there's a high buzz, high sales will follow. The G6 is very quite well mostly to do with Oprah's show but selling very well nontheless. The pontiac site had 242,000 hits soon after the show aired.

Article

The buzz over the STS is high as well and the amount of positive reviews it's receiving should make it even more of a money-maker.

Second, that's only an opinion about Chevrolet as a whole. Also, since when has the Corvette not worn the chevrolet label? It always has. It's in the Corvette label itself. You have to actually look at it to see it and it's always been marketed as a Chevy product. They don't hide the fact that it is. Have you been onto the Chevy website at all or seen any of the commercials? Oh.. bad question because you detest most of the cars made by GM from what I've gathered.


Third, give me one other domestic brand from the past decade that has had a turnaround like Cadillac? Seriously, if you can find one other brand that has had sales skyrocket as much as they did with only 2 products (Escalade and CTS) with the SRX and XLR to follow. Just one.
Also, returning to the level of 1990 sales is extremely good since 1990 is the record for most Cadillacs sold ever. In fact, sales should exceed that level with the STS and the revised deville when they come to market this year and next year.
Incentives are a form of Bribery? Overexaggerating now I see. What's bad about trying to get people to buy your product. No matter what the company, you can't hope you'll get sales with product alone. Toyota does this and they have great products. It's part of business. When you complain about GM, stop making up new problems for them. Leave that for Jerry Flint. At least he has some info to back up his rantings. You don't.

There is nothing in the Detroit lineup save for Full-sized trucks and SUV's that is better (even the new material) than the Japanese.  Not one new Ford, GM, or Chrysler product is superior in its class on performance and value.

Don't clump the Japanese together because that statement is not entirely true. Have you seen what Mitsubishi or Suzuki, or Isuzu has had on the market? Tell me again that all Japanese cars are superior.
Not one American product is superior in it's class on performance and value? WHAT??!!?! This is so unbelievably funny. You couldn't be further from the truth. Why are you making this up??? I know you just want to cause people to get angry at you but this is so obvious. Why are you still here? Well, I understand why you are still posting but why hasn't anyone stopped you? Do you have connections? Well, I know you're just the resident basher but I just really wanted to prove how insane your comments are one last time.

[paul8488]

If Cadillac hadn't had some sort of rebirth it would be selling at much lower levels than it is now. It's unfortunate that GM let them slide at all, but since they did, they needed serious work. And they got it. And it worked. I don't know how many Cadillacs sold in 1943, but that doesn't matter now. What matters most is year-over-year numbers. If a division slides and ends up selling 100,000 cars a year after selling 500,000 the previous year, it's the newest set of numbers that matters, and the ones that have to be outdone. Ideally they get back up to or above the 500,000, but an improvement is an improvement no matter what the all-time sales record was. Besides, they have to catch up to 1990's levels before they go any higher.

As for GM versus Ford overall, I'm really glad Ford took the high road and stopped selling fleet cars. They can hold their head much higher now... just not when we come to tally sales and marketshare at the end of the year. Ford is a workhorse, all-American, bread-and-butter division. The last thing they can afford is exclusivity. Leave that for Mercury or the PAG vehicles... Ford should want its Ford-badged vehicles everywhere. Projected Ford 500 sales of around 120,000 in its first year? Aim low Ford... you'll have no problem meeting your goals! Ford should be aiming to hit 200,000 in the first year. Camry and Accord manage it. If they can't build that many quality vehicles out of the gate they should quit and go build toasters.

[GM_Guy81]

GREAT STORY MarinerBC.

haha