Motortrend Blog: VW Wants a Share of U.S. Government Loans to Automakers

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Tstag

Why should GM or Ford get an interest free loan for 5 years in the first place? It's not fair and free competion is it?

That is at the heart of this arguement. If your a capatilist you argue that they shouldn't get this as it distorts competition. The EU won't let this one ride and the US can't pick a fight with an economy that's bigger than it.

Because, no matter how the auto companies want to spin it, it's a bailout.
The auto industry in the US is dying -- at least for the domestic manufacturers. And without this core component of US manufacturing humming along, the US will dive deeper into a recession.

The Big 3 are strong enough that a cash infusion can get them through the mess; however, they shouldn't consider this "free money." They need to seriously evaluate their corporate strategies and revamp them.

This is simply a bailout of the industry, no matter what anyone says.

EU can fight all they want, but they are as guilty of providing cash to its companies for competitive purposes too. I mean, where do you think Airbus got the money to launch the A380 and A350?? They certainly are strong enough and large enough to launch the aircraft on their own. But noooo... they ran home to mommy for more allowance money.

This is an argument with strong positions on both sides.
If the US were to simply allow the Free Market to take over, GM, Ford, and Chrysler would be dead and dismantled and sold off for its component parts. Wall Street would weather the collapse of the investment firms and AIG and Freddie and Fannie. And this country would dive into a deep depp depression not seen since the 1920's. The US financial sector would be in shambles. And US manufacturing would be dead because the US doesn't have a competitive cost base.

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by 61BelAir

I think I finally see the bigger picture here! You are a part of the Aryan Nation and you're all for helping out the motherland, the deutsche land!

Funny you would say that, because when I say that America shouldn't give out foreign aid, t-rex and johnstarnes call me Nazis. Now when I say it should give out foreign aid, again, I'm a Nazi, which confirms what I have believed all along, which is that "fascism" has no real meaning and "Nazi" is defined as "I disagree with you".

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Because, no matter how the auto companies want to spin it, it's a bailout.
The auto industry in the US is dying -- at least for the domestic manufacturers. And without this core component of US manufacturing humming along, the US will dive deeper into a recession.

The Big 3 are strong enough that a cash infusion can get them through the mess; however, they shouldn't consider this "free money." They need to seriously evaluate their corporate strategies and revamp them.

This is simply a bailout of the industry, no matter what anyone says.

Oh, stop beating around the bush. There is an obvious reason we need to bail out the Big 3, and it has nothing to do with Airbus. White folk's greed runs a world in need. No Big 3 = no tax revenue to run the world.

[GMusa]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

What don't you understand about "our fair share"?

ok that first video just shows ur a McCain supporter.. and this video is about investing money to fight global warming and about spedning money for humanitarian reasons! No giving money to bail out companies around the world like VW wants.

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by GMusa

ok that first video just shows ur a McCain supporter..

Not true. It is the only video that I could find of that clip. If you can find a version without the "editing", I gladly will substitute it for what I posted. As for helping companies, remember that corporations really are nothing more than state licensed employment agencies. We are not helping VW. We are helping its workers. I know they are white and all, but you have to give them a little slack. Karl Marx was German.

[GMusa]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

Not true. It is the only video that I could find of that clip. If you can find a version without the "editing", I gladly will substitute it for what I posted. As for helping companies, remember that corporations really are nothing more than state licensed employment agencies. We are not helping VW. We are helping its workers. I know they are white and all, but you have to give them a little slack. Karl Marx was German.

Oh ok .. sry bout the politics.

Ya and im German too (German American) .. what does that or being white have anything to do with this? We need to help our workers and economy here in the States before rescuing and giving federal money (our money) to companies and their workers in foreign countries.

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by GMusa

Oh ok .. sry bout the politics.

Ya and im German too (German American) .. what does that or being white have anything to do with this? We need to help our workers and economy here in the States before rescuing and giving federal money (our money) to companies and their workers in foreign countries.

That's my point: American, German, Ethiopian, Chinese... what does any of it matter. Hundreds of millions of Chinese (or at least tens of millions) are better off today because Chinese factories have access to American markets. This is the vision of the U.N. Millennium Fund that Obama will support with $50,000,000,000. In the end, it makes no difference if you call it humanitarian or corporate funding. As long as it is directed by the U.S. government, it helps all mankind progress. Do you understand?

[Ed Arcuri]

HoosierRon, I am enjoying watching the exchange here between you and GMUsa. I take your point. I'm not sure that your references are fully appreciated, because it appears that you are making assumptions (with which I agree) that are not part of the view expressed by your correspondent.
I challenge the idea that the US is universally disliked abroad. I've been hearing this for some time. During that time Germany threw out Gerhard Shroeder and selected center-right Angela Merkel in his stead. The French said adieuto Francois Mitterand and selected center right Nicolas Sarkozy to replace him. The Mexicans have voted for their second center right President in succession; the first two since the modern era there began in 1920. In Italy they have, for the first time since World War II, a parliament which has no Communist member. Their Prime MInister is Silvio Berlusconi a center right businessman who ousted former EU biggie, Roman Prodi. If election results indicate anything, they indicate that many voters around the world have chosen to move closer to US thinking on major policy issues rather than to move further away. I realize that the notion of whether "people like us" is a much bigger topic. My point is, simply, that we should do more than repeat the conventional wisdom. We should challenge it.
That is one of the reasons I check this forum almost every day. The conventional wisdom takes a real beating here sometimes!
Right on HoosierRon and write on GMUsa.
Cheers,
Ed Arcuri

[91 s-10baja]

HELLLL NO. It is not our fault they went to chrysler for their minivan, and more than likely will lose money?

[redfox]

HELL NO. NO WAY.

[61BelAir]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

Funny you would say that, because when I say that America shouldn't give out foreign aid, t-rex and johnstarnes call me Nazis. Now when I say it should give out foreign aid, again, I'm a Nazi, which confirms what I have believed all along, which is that "fascism" has no real meaning and "Nazi" is defined as "I disagree with you".

Based on what you just said regarding some countries deserving help while others don't, how do you make that decision? Is it based on which way the wind is blowing on that particular day or is there some other unknown reason why you think some countries deserve aid, while other countries don't deserve it? Are you a Nazi? I don't know, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its most likely a duck.

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by Ed Arcuri

HoosierRon, I am enjoying watching the exchange here between you and GMUsa. I take your point. I'm not sure that your references are fully appreciated, because it appears that you are making assumptions (with which I agree) that are not part of the view expressed by your correspondent.
I challenge the idea that the US is universally disliked abroad. I've been hearing this for some time. During that time Germany threw out Gerhard Shroeder and selected center-right Angela Merkel in his stead. The French said adieuto Francois Mitterand and selected center right Nicolas Sarkozy to replace him. The Mexicans have voted for their second center right President in succession; the first two since the modern era there began in 1920. In Italy they have, for the first time since World War II, a parliament which has no Communist member. Their Prime MInister is Silvio Berlusconi a center right businessman who ousted former EU biggie, Roman Prodi. If election results indicate anything, they indicate that many voters around the world have chosen to move closer to US thinking on major policy issues rather than to move further away. I realize that the notion of whether "people like us" is a much bigger topic. My point is, simply, that we should do more than repeat the conventional wisdom. We should challenge it.
That is one of the reasons I check this forum almost every day. The conventional wisdom takes a real beating here sometimes!
Right on HoosierRon and write on GMUsa.
Cheers,
Ed Arcuri

Selection of a prime minister in a parliamentary state is a complicated process and may not reflect the will of the people. But we all have seen Europe's (and the World's!) reaction to Obama. He may fairly be called the first President of the World. Just like people in Massachusetts and Illinois and California all view themselves as Americans even though they are of different states, Americans and Kenyans and Saudi Arabians need to view themselves as citizens of the world (as Obama does). Once we do that, we will think nothing of spending $700 billion on "foreign" oil because it will not be foreign; it will simply be "the world's" oil. And we will think nothing of buying $300 billion of "Chinese" products because we simply are buying our own world products. And it will make no difference if the Obama directs $25 billion to GM or Ford or VW or the U.N. Millennium Fund, because we will all be one.

I simply can't say it any better than this:

+ YouTube Video

Now watch this video and you will see the change that is coming: no barriers; "changing America's face to the world... all people... we are the ones we have been waiting for".

+ YouTube Video

There obviously is a reason that Michigan is a blue state. Those laid off auto workers know that it is not about them; it is about the World.

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by 61BelAir

Based on what you just said regarding some countries deserving help while others don't, how do you make that decision? Is it based on which way the wind is blowing on that particular day or is there some other unknown reason why you think some countries deserve aid, while other countries don't deserve it? Are you a Nazi? I don't know, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its most likely a duck.

You must stop thinking in terms of "which country" and pitting some people who live in one geographic area against other people who live somewhere else. You have far too many nationalistic tendencies.

Obama will not need to choose between one group of people and another. We all are citizens of One world. Stop dividing us. I am sure he can figure out who needs what and support everyone according to their needs.

And if you need a little more detail on how U.S. taxpayer money will be distributed, just remember that "The U.N. Millennium Development Fund's goals will be America's goals." Obama has dedicated $50 billion dollars for fighting AIDS in Africa and building schools in Indonesia. Like I said, to each according to their needs.

[samkung]

hahahah VW should ask German government for more $$$$$$ or Porsche ?

[steve333]

Screw VW! Foreign Govmnts have been helping their domestic industries for decades, now finally our Govmnt is waking up.
Thee money should go ONLY to Ford, GM, and Chrysler. Period.