Of Hybrids & Hydrogen

[minnfang]

Yah, I know it's about a Toyota, but I thought it was an interesting article regarding hybrid and hydrogen power development. Just shows there is a lot of work to be done. However, with all of the companies and people involved, there are major changes in our future - whether it's this path or not.


http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto...96.A11951.html


TCC Drives A Hydrogen Prius

A pollution-free hydrogen hybrid is in the works.
by Gary Witzenburg (2007-02-22)

Toyota's Prius has become a standard-bearer of sort for the green machine movement. Buyers who were looking for technologically advanced vehicles with good fuel economy latched on to the Prius - and have so in larger numbers since its 1998 introduction.

Now, Toyota is planning the third generation of its bleeding-edge hybrid, with a concept due at the Geneva motor show that might show the way to the next evolution of the Prius. But what if the Prius were to become radically different? What if it were to adopt a new powertrain - one fueled by hydrogen?

One company is working on just such an experimental Prius - ECD Ovonics, a battery and hydrogen-storage technology company headed by former General Motors chairman Robert Stempel. TheCarConnection took ECD's offer of driving their experimental Prius recently, and in its current state of development, a hydrogen Prius doesn't seem to be too far a stretch of technology's imagination.

[megeebee]

"bleeding-edge"?

[big swede]

I think a lot of manufacturers are working on similiar projects it's just that GM trumped them by showing what their working on in the form of the Volt. Ford has an Edge that works similiarly to the Volt but instead of a small diesel to charge the batteries on longer trips they use a hydrogen fuel cell to recharge the batteries. The next ten years will show tremendous progress with real life usability if for no other reason then battery technology making huge improvements almost monthly.

There are already new battery technologies that are supposed to make Lipo batteries look like Nicads.

[LAMRONH]

Boomers' New Ride
The Middle-Aged Are Going Green, and the Automakers Follow

By Sholnn Freeman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, February 25, 2007; F01



At the grocery store, Lloyd Lachow buys organic milk and fruit. At the dealership, he shops for hybrids.

"It's a cultural thing," Lachow says. "I'm somebody who doesn't think global warming is a myth. I understand what science is. I take those things seriously and act accordingly."

Lachow, 55, is a baby boomer. The generation, born in the years between the end of World War II and the early 1960s, has driven every major automotive buying trend since the late 1970s, when boomers began giving up on Detroit's gas-guzzlers. They flocked to the small, boxy imports built by Toyota and Honda.

In the 1980s, they dissed station wagons in favor of minivans. As their wealth grew during the decade, they moved up to sexier and brawnier sport-utility vehicles to carry their growing families, their shopping bags and their boats. Along the way, they left behind the luxury of Lincoln and Cadillac for the foreign marques of Acura, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Lexus.

Now, the boomers could be on the verge of making another major turn. After decades of indifference, they are starting to change their buying habits in response to global warming. And automakers are rolling out a growing list of vehicles to take advantage of the changing attitudes.

Environment-conscious consumers have choices beyond the Toyota Prius and Honda Civic hybrids, such as other hybrids, diesels, high-mileage small cars with traditional gasoline engines, and ethanol-powered vehicles. Lachow, a Toyota devotee since the early 1990s, bought a Toyota Camry hybrid last year, a decision he says was motivated by concern over the environment.

Green drivers can find a cadre of subcompact, conventional gasoline-powered cars like Toyota's Yaris and Honda's Fit, which burst onto the U.S. market as hot sellers last year.

Hybrids, which even recently were viewed as a fad, are gaining traction in the marketplace. Toyota's Prius, of course, is king of the category. Toyota expects to sell 150,000 Prius cars this year, up 50 percent from last year. Tight supply had forced would-be buyers onto month-long waiting lists, but now the supply is more plentiful. Dealers say the automaker is intent on pushing hybrids -- including the Prius -- into the mainstream U.S. auto market. Toyota has sweetened deals on the Prius, enticing new customers like Joe Morra, a government attorney who lives in Rockville. Earlier this month, Morra was weighing the purchase of a new Prius at Lake Forest Toyota in Maryland.

"I'm almost 50 years old," Morra said. "I was raised at the tail end of the 1950s, when environmental activism was born. Concern for the environment has been instilled in me my whole life. I recycle. I plant trees. I am a member of the Wildlife Fund. I view owning a car as a necessary evil."

Story at link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...referrer=email

Daniel Gorrell, an expert in car-buyer psychology based in San Diego, sees a coming era of preening and pretentiousness related to the environment. "Buying a car is usually 90 percent related to you," Gorrell said. "It's not about saving the world. It's about making a statement about yourself and your values and that you are caring and conscientious. 'Hey, look at me -- I'm somebody who's special.' "

[87aero]

Originally Posted by LAMRONH

I view owning a car as a necessary evil."

Ugggh......

Tell that one to people in third world countries. Ignorant people who don't recognize that it's a privilege to own a car, do not deserve to have one. Besides, it's the cars, trucks, and highways that literally drive our economy.

[SierraGS]

First, for those who may have missed the original broadcasts.

The Discovery Channel will re-air the 4 excellent "Future Cars" programs on March 3, 2007 starting at 3:00PM (you should check your local listings).

GM Hybrid and Hydrogen technology (#3) is shown (along with other very interesting alternatives) and is presented with facts not hype.

It shows many options to oil use and some that have been used for 80 years.

The only thing missing was coverage on Algae and it's ability to reduce C02 while making fuel.

[johnny smallblock]

Originally Posted by 87aero

Ugggh......

Tell that one to people in third world countries. Ignorant people who don't recognize that it's a privilege to own a car, do not deserve to have one. Besides, it's the cars, trucks, and highways that literally drive our economy.

That's the necessary part.

[BlueMontreal]

It's not totally clean. When you burn at hight temperature something in a hight pressure (like the combustion chamber of the ICE) in a 79% nitrogen atmosphere, you get secondary reactions. You create NO2 and NO3.

[chakis24]

i saw on tv that there a few hydrogen h2's that have been running around for quite awhile now- how come those are never talked about?

[chakis24]

found it: http://www.gmhummer.com/hummerspecs/h2h/main.htm

that things got a supercharged 6.0 in it too!

http://trucks.about.com/od/hybridcar/a/hummer_h2h.htm

its been around since 2004.

[baloo]

It's pretty trivial to make a gasoline engine run on hydrogen. The problem is, you need lots of energy to make the hydrogen in the first place, which is why cars like the Hydrogen H2 or BMW 7-series are actually less efficient than the regular gasoline versions.

Hydrogen is an energy carrier just like rechargeable batteries, it's not an energy source.

According to a senior engineer at MB it's extremely unlikely that we will ever see production hydrogen cars because of the inherent storage problems. Only liquid hydrogen is dense enough to power a car, but it won't stay liquid if it gets warm. Basically the tank empties itself within a few days, even with extremely good insulation.

[cs1992]

The more I read about hydrogen, the more I am convinced that batteries and BEVs are the solution.

[Old Dood]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

First, for those who may have missed the original broadcasts.

The Discovery Channel will re-air the 4 excellent "Future Cars" programs on March 3, 2007 starting at 3:00PM (you should check your local listings).

GM Hybrid and Hydrogen technology (#3) is shown (along with other very interesting alternatives) and is presented with facts not hype.

It shows many options to oil use and some that have been used for 80 years.

The only thing missing was coverage on Algae and it's ability to reduce C02 while making fuel.

Thanks for the heads up. I totally forgot about this show. I want to see that. I will set my DVR for March 3rd then...