"Hybrid Cars a 'Terrible' Business Prospect"

[surferdude00711]

Edmunds:

PARIS, France — Not all automakers are rushing headlong to embrace hybrids as a solution to fuel economy woes. Carlos Ghosn, joint CEO of Nissan and Renault, described gasoline-electric hybrid cars as a "terrible business proposition," despite moves by many rivals to expand production of the vehicles.

"Hybrid sales account for less than 1 percent of global sales," Ghosn said. "It is a niche technology. The question is how much the consumer is willing to pay for them, and if they are unsure at $70 a barrel [for oil] then I would be very worried. For now it is a terrible business prospect," he said.

Toyota and Honda, Nissan's Japanese rivals, have both reported strong sales of hybrids in the U.S. in the past two years, while BMW, DaimlerChrysler, Ford, General Motors and Volkswagen have all announced plans to boost hybrid production. However, GM and Ford have both admitted the technology is not likely to be profitable for years, while Toyota and Honda say hybrids have narrower margins than gasoline cars.

Ghosn described demand for hybrids as "anecdotal" and added he remained unconvinced that consumers wanted petrol-electric vehicles rather than fuel-efficient diesel cars, cars that use "flex-fuel" — which has a higher alcohol content — or fuel-cell vehicles. "We have seen no significant shift in the market," he said. "We have to be careful that we don't try to impose a technology on the market."

Nissan has a hybrid Altima sedan on their future slate. Prototypes are currently in circulation of this vehicle, which is slated to appear in the fall of 2006 as a 2007 model. Rather than developing its own hybrid engine, Nissan has instead licensed the system used on the Prius by Toyota.

What this means to you: People love hybrids, but there are other options out there that might make more sense.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=107358
GO GM FUEL CELL TECHNOLOGY

[plane]

What this means to you: People love hybrids, but there are other options out there that might make more sense.

Like a GM fuel cell?
Like a GM weak hybrid combined with a direct injection small displacement diesel until that fuel cell arrives?

[surferdude00711]

Originally Posted by plane

Like a GM fuel cell?
Like a GM weak hybrid combined with a direct injection small displacement diesel until that fuel cell arrives?

Say what ? GM's 'weak' hybrid system is much more viable because is doesn't require those EXPENSIVE batteries. I do believe GM is coming out with a Toyota-esque system too. CivicH uses the 'weak' system btw.

[surferdude00711]

Originally Posted by plane

See edited response. I added the last sentence from the article so that it's clear what I was referring to.

Oooh.

[richb65]

Finally, some sensible thinking on hybrid vehicles! Although demand for hybrids might be more than "anecdotal," they are a lousy proposition for both the auto manufacturers (I'm told that most hybrids, including the Prius, are heavily subsidized by Toyota), and for consumers (the payback on hybrids is generally > 4 years compared to non-hybrids, even at $2.75/gal gasoline). I'm not quite sure where fuel cell vehicles fit in -- probably nowhere for the next 10 or 20 years. Don't get me started on ethanol or bio-diesel -- both are completely dependent upon taxpayer subsidies, and worst of all they consume more energy than they create.
The only "alternative" fuels that really make economic sense are diesel and propane.

[mjd1001]

What I'd love to see, and hopefully GM will be there in a year or two because they are close with all technologie:

-Wide use of Displacement on Demand. This seems to increase mileage by 1 city and 2 highway.

-6 speed automatic transmissions. I think GM's will probably increase mileage by 1 city and 1 or 2 highway.

-mild hybrid system. Should help city mileage by 2mpg at least.

Put all three together and you are looking at 4 more mpg city and 3-4 highway.

[56 Starchief]

in 10 years when these batteries die ill be laughing all the way to the bank in my 2015 GM hydrogen vehicle (tho ill prob get a camaro)

[Mr. Burns]

hybrids will sell like hotcakes to taxi drivers.

[Mr. Burns]

Originally Posted by 56 Starchief

in 10 years when these batteries die ill be laughing all the way to the bank in my 2015 GM hydrogen vehicle (tho ill prob get a camaro)

where would you fill it up? what if you end up in a crash and explode in a fiery fireball? there is alot of work needed with fuel cells, distribution, safety, size speed etc... 2015 is an unlikely time they will be made widely available. id give it another 2 decades.

[vanshmack]

Originally Posted by Mr. Burns

where would you fill it up? what if you end up in a crash and explode in a fiery fireball? there is alot of work needed with fuel cells, distribution, safety, size speed etc... 2015 is an unlikely time they will be made widely available. id give it another 2 decades.

Explode in a fiery fireball?

Once again you've proven that your ignorance is astounding.

[Mr. Burns]

Originally Posted by vanshmack

Explode in a fiery fireball?

Once again you've proven that your ignorance is astounding.

hydrogen is highly flammable and explosive.

[nailhead425]

Originally Posted by Mr. Burns

hydrogen is highly flammable and explosive.

not to mention that of all the methods we have to generate pure hydrogen, all require more energy to produce the hydrogen then obtained by combining the hydrogen with oxygen in a fuel cell. Fuel cells are foolish, better off with combustion or straight electric.

not that I have a science degree or anything...

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by nailhead425

not to mention that of all the methods we have to generate pure hydrogen, all require more energy to produce the hydrogen then obtained by combining the hydrogen with oxygen in a fuel cell. Fuel cells are foolish, better off with combustion or straight electric.

not that I have a science degree or anything...

This is very True. Hydrogen is not an energy saver it is an energy HANDOFF, as in the Car people say to the power company, "Hi, you get to produce more electricity so we can split water atoms into pure Hydrogen and Oxygen and put them in out super clean cars." So unless someone figures out how to make Nuclear Fusion Power a reality this is not going to solve any problems, just create new ones in other areas.

Besides Hybrid's are not good buisness, they are however good PR, and good PR is good buisness.

[vanshmack]

Originally Posted by Mr. Burns

hydrogen is highly flammable and explosive.

So is gasoline.