GMI Exclusive: Kappa II Platform Axed From R&D

[GMusa]

I understand why GM is doing this.. but one less exciting product from Pontiac! All Pontiac is riding on is the G8 and the G6 which the G6's are pretty boring looking and dont perform well. And with news that Pontiac will be investing more into FWD cars rather then RWD cars .. Pontiac days are going to be numbered unless GM can make some pretty amazing FWD vehicles that can excite everyone from the average buyer to the performance oriented customer.

[blaksabb]

Originally Posted by kenman923

That's it. Goodbye GM. My next car will either be a Honda Accord or a Mazda 6.

So your purchase set included two FWD Family Sedans or a RWD sport roadster? GM potentially lets the roadsters fade into history so rather than looking at a Miata or Camaro Convertible (which will be out by the time Kappa I is gone) you go for the family sedans?

If family sedan is in the mix why not consider the Malibu? Perhaps Cobalt SS sedan if a stick is a must (maybe we'll have the Cruze by then).

I'm just not following your thought train.

[Lichtronamo]

Given every other GM product plan that has been delayed or cancelled, this isn't very surprising. If GM can't afford a mid-cycle update to the Malibu or a next generation Impala, the Kappa cars are an unnecessary luxury.

[Tone]

Not sure where the $10,000 loss per car came from. When GM introduced Kappa, it touted the production method as being a low cost way to do low volume cars (tooling costs are apparently much lower for hydroforming, but they don't last as long -- perfect for a low volume roadster).

If memory serves, GM claimed it could break even on volume as low as 25000 units annually. Not sure what the sales figures are for the Kappa twins, but either they are really not selling, GM's projections on costs for Kappa were way off or they really are not losing $10,000 per car.

[mkwelbornjr]

Although this could mean simply a switch to the baby cadillac platform which is more flexible.

[GReekBoy]

Originally Posted by kenman923

The bottom line is that GM is not making cars that people want to buy. If they continue to cut everything, there will be not products that GM has to offer to stay in business.

but you dont make any sense.. your are cross shopping between a soltice/sky, accord, and 6? not exactly in the same class. how is gm supposed to make cars you want to buy when you dont even know

[BlueMontreal]

Originally Posted by TechnoAura

It is truly sad to see the end of the Kappas on the horizon. Although I knew the Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky, and Opel GT were to be image cars only for GM and therefore would not have a long life span, it is still sad to see the end of this platform in the not so distant future. Those on this forum who boo GM have to remember that GM is losing money with each Kappa they build. The original goal was to develop an automobile that would boost GM's image while filling a niche market. Their intent was not to keep this platform forever. At least the public can see what GM is capable of designing and building. Now they (GM) need to boost their image by changing the designs of much of their North American product portfolio.

It worked for me. After I bought my Cavalier in 2000, I told myself to never look a any GM product. I got rid of it when I won a MINI in a charity lottery (since then my MINI had been destroyed while being park by a drunk driver).

But I saw picture of the Solstice and I started having interest in GM again. I started browsing the web and I found that GM has moved since my 2000 Cavalier.

[Rick_VT]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Alpha will be too expensive now due to Cadillac and GM Europe having full developmental rights to it now. GM stripped it away from Holden so most likely Alpha will not be cheap enough to spawn affordable mainstream RWD cars.

I must have missed that post, when did GM give Cadillac and GM Europe rights to develop Alpha?? Thats crap, why give it to Cadillac they would only make it way to expensive and what the hell do GM Europe have in experience recently in RWD??

This is crap, Alpha was Holdens idea, that was 1 of the main points of the TT36 concept car that everyone calls Torana, to show GM the potential of a smaller RWD car, they should be aloud to develop it not friggin Europe who have no experience with RWD, Holden have proved they can develop great RWD products at a much lower cost to develop than GM ever could with products.

If GM was ever serious about making Pontiac the sports car division they could have the Solstice and G6 on this platform, even if they make diff sizes for it, Holden do it fine with Commodore and LWB Statesman, Camaro could go on it to to make it lighter, just with those amount of NA sales alone would justify the platform, throw in some for Holden and maybe even a Euro RWD fighter for Opel or Chev depending which way they want to price it.

Seems logical to me, but GM dont seem to think like that anymore.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Rick_VT

I must have missed that post, when did GM give Cadillac and GM Europe rights to develop Alpha?? Thats crap, why give it to Cadillac they would only make it way to expensive and what the hell do GM Europe have in experience recently in RWD??

This is crap, Alpha was Holdens idea, that was 1 of the main points of the TT36 concept car that everyone calls Torana, to show GM the potential of a smaller RWD car, they should be aloud to develop it not friggin Europe who have no experience with RWD, Holden have proved they can develop great RWD products at a much lower cost to develop than GM ever could with products.

If GM was ever serious about making Pontiac the sports car division they could have the Solstice and G6 on this platform, even if they make diff sizes for it, Holden do it fine with Commodore and LWB Statesman, Camaro could go on it to to make it lighter, just with those amount of NA sales alone would justify the platform, throw in some for Holden and maybe even a Euro RWD fighter for Opel or Chev depending which way they want to price it.

Seems logical to me, but GM dont seem to think like that anymore.

It wasn't a thread so it isn't surprising you missed it.

Originally Posted by nsap

I believe 2011-ish for the Caddy. GM took development of Alpha away from Holden and gave it to GM North American and GM Europe to develop. They did that so Cadillac can get everything THEY want from the platform. I've heard that GM Europe (assuming an Opel) will get some kind of Alpha product.

Any updated news on the Alpha Platform related to 1st Gen BLS or 7th Gen Grand Am?

[nsap]

Originally Posted by Rick_VT

I must have missed that post, when did GM give Cadillac and GM Europe rights to develop Alpha?? Thats crap, why give it to Cadillac they would only make it way to expensive and what the hell do GM Europe have in experience recently in RWD??

This is crap, Alpha was Holdens idea, that was 1 of the main points of the TT36 concept car that everyone calls Torana, to show GM the potential of a smaller RWD car, they should be aloud to develop it not friggin Europe who have no experience with RWD, Holden have proved they can develop great RWD products at a much lower cost to develop than GM ever could with products.

If GM was ever serious about making Pontiac the sports car division they could have the Solstice and G6 on this platform, even if they make diff sizes for it, Holden do it fine with Commodore and LWB Statesman, Camaro could go on it to to make it lighter, just with those amount of NA sales alone would justify the platform, throw in some for Holden and maybe even a Euro RWD fighter for Opel or Chev depending which way they want to price it.

Seems logical to me, but GM dont seem to think like that anymore.

GMNA and GM Europe developed Sigma and Sigma II, two of the best RWD platforms in the world. Do not underestimate their expertise in designing RWD platforms.

Pontiac is not going to be a performance division. One look at their future product makes that very obvious.

[Kennyboy]

Perhaps the next generation Solstice and Sky will ride on the Alpha platform and development costs will spread over different brands to help offset the costs. Cadillac, Saab, Chevy, Buick, Saturn, Opel, Daewoo, Holden, Pontiac, and Chinese Buick should all get their own versions.

[jbernie]

Originally Posted by genjy

That's like saying the new Camaro's R&D barely cost GM any money because the gen4 Camaro was also a RWD coupe.

The current Miata is a completely brand new design... it has nothing to do with the previous two generations of Miatas.

However the Miata is evolutionary, it has been in production for 20 years so every new iteration is in part for by the profits of the previous model. Think more along the lines of the Crown Victoria as opposed to the Camaro. The Comaro is coming out on Zeta so along with the G8 and all the Asian, Middle East, Sth America, Sth African and Euro variants of Holdens SWB/LWB Zeta platform helps pay for all the investment GM Holden made on the platform and tooling.

[RCDonner]

With $ 10000 loss on every kappa I wonder how other manufacturers are able to offer cars like that. Why not offer them as premium cars comparable to Z4 and SLK with a much better build quality ? Then GM could demand more money for it and will improve the reputatation of building great cars.

[MonaroSS]

Originally Posted by nsap

GMNA and GM Europe developed Sigma and Sigma II, two of the best RWD platforms in the world. Do not underestimate their expertise in designing RWD platforms.

Pontiac is not going to be a performance division. One look at their future product makes that very obvious.

You might have to go to Wikipedia and edit the article that says Sigma was started before 1998 at Holden. What the article does not say is that when Cadillac came on board to share the design with Holden they kept on insisting on more and more expensive alloy bits until it became too costly and Holden pulled out giving all their work on Sigma over to NA. And then Holden set about designing Zeta as a cheaper alternate platform.

So the same thing is happening now to Alpha. Holden designs it and develops it and then other pet brands like Cadillac come on board and they want more and more expensive bits and so the same has happened again. Only this time instead of Holden pulling out they have had it taken off them and their work handed once again to Cadillac.

Not to worry, Holden will bounce back with something even better and more innovative. They just need to be left the hell alone from NA Head Quarters so they can get on with the job and build a great small RWD sports sedan platform that Holden and their Daewoo subsidiary can make into a low cost, lot's of fun for the bucks, car for real drivers.....

[Gm786]

As much as I hate to see GM cut the kappa platform, I have to agree with GM's move on this one. GM is losing a bit too much money on the Pontiac Solstice and the Saturn Sky. Why keep the product going if you can't make profit off of it. I do hope that GM either replaces the Pontiac Solstice and the Saturn Sky or builds them on another worthy platform that can save them money as well as generate a decent profit.