GMI Exclusive: Kappa II Platform Axed From R&D

[steinravnik]

Originally Posted by nsap

The current generation of cars will run its full life, then they're done.

I'm not going to boo this one. I think this is a good move. If something HAS to be cut, it should be product lines like this...niche products that do not sell much and are money pits. Business wise this was a no-brainier.

I like the Kappas, but I have to agree. I didn't realize GM was losing so much on them.

[big3worker]

why all the overtime at the ldt plant??? are they stock piling so they can bring in a new fuel effecient vehicle and send the acadia and buick to spring hill??? it would be nice if they would come up with a vehicle that there own $14.00 doller an hour employees could afford to buy anyone else agree???

[1999Suburban]

First, let me say that I own a 2006 Miata. I can't say I'm surprised about this development. GM decided to rush these cars to the market to compete directly with the third generation Miata that was coming out. These cars look great but are not thought out as well as the MX-5. I can put two sets of golf clubs in the trunk of my Mazda AND put the top down. Not to mention that I can put the top down in my car from the seated position, you can't do that with the Kappa twins. The Miata is a great car for going away on the weekends and driving every day, which I do. Since this is my second Miata and having both trunk space and ease of operation of the top is what I'm used to, those two features where glaringly missing on the Kappas and would be a show stopper for me. GM hit it out the park on styling on the Kappas, they could take that chance because they had nothing to lose. Mazda on the other hand has a car that is an icon for their company, much like the Vette is for GM, and they can't afford to go over the top and risk losing customers.

All that being said, I rented a Sky for the weekend a while back and they are nice cars but distinctly different from the Miata. The Sky feels more like a cruiser while the Miata is more of a drivers car. I definitely have more fun driving my Miata than I did the Sky, and I rode the Sky pretty hard .

I have to shake my head when I hear that GM is losing money on these cars, they can and should do better.

[jzEllis]

hmmmm, i think we as a collective may be missing the greater point. the fact that a gigantic company like GM, which is supposedly suffering from the type of hubris best associated with drunkin lumbering oppresive giants, actually designed constructed and mass produced a overall EXCELLENT small n/a / turbo roadster for the masses, that out ran, or handles with the best the world had to offer in it's class, at BLUE COLLAR PRICES!!! 19-very low 20's NO LESS!!!

it's amazing that this even happened from ANY automaker, let alone GM! and they even managed to avoid the "chick car" stigma that the admittedly excellent Miata always and still suffers from!

in fact, when i think about the fact that it has /had hydra formed chassis, hood, fenders, and etc; AND a class leading giant killing 4 cylinder (turbo variants can handle 500hp on stock internals) independent suspension, good looks, excellent moddability!!!

can any one say future classic, and definitely future collectible!

in fact, i'm mad at myself for never seriously considering one!!

to think, i bought TWO GTOs, and i'm ready to buy a new Camaro or Vette, and i could have had a Solstice GXP or Saturn Sky redline for less than any of those!!!

[AMcA]

Originally Posted by kenman923

That's it. Goodbye GM. My next car will either be a Honda Accord or a Mazda 6.

Won't even consider a Malibu?

[1999Suburban]

I think you missed the intent of original article. GM isn't producing a car for the masses at 19-20k, it is selling them for that price but they are losing 10k per unit sold.

[Lichtronamo]

I don't get people that say they won't buy another GM car if they cut my pet brand. Given that the parts are 95% common (and have been for 30 years or so), these people are only being fooled by marketing.

[RedVee8]

Originally Posted by Lichtronamo

I don't get people that say they won't buy another GM car if they cut my pet brand. Given that the parts are 95% common (and have been for 30 years or so), these people are only being fooled by marketing.

Because people are emotionally attached to 'their' brand and would feel personally insulted.

Even to those that wouldn't dismiss GM out of hand, there is a danger in losing a brand. For example, if GM replace Holden with Chev in Australia, they'd lose all the 'rusted on' fans. The Chev would possibly be considered the next time a purchase was contemplated but would have no advantage of incumbancy and no advantage in the 'heart'.

[PAULSTS1]

GM greenlighted those expensive programs because no one anticipated the future. While I like the Solstace, it could have been spun off a Cobalt platform, making the amortized costs much less. The savings could have been passed along to re-design the DTS which makes GM about $17K on every sale!

The middle class in America is having trouble right now, the affluent are not! My local BMW dealer is running out of stock on the 3 Series, and the 7 Series isn't selling that well because the new model has been "leaked" to the press. When the new 7 is available buyers will line up, I guarantee. Meanwhile the middle class inspired CTS, will be passe within a year or so and then Cadillac will have absolutely nothing to sell!

The GM Board should be walked out....

[Gm786]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

GM greenlighted those expensive programs because no one anticipated the future. While I like the Solstace, it could have been spun off a Cobalt platform, making the amortized costs much less. The savings could have been passed along to re-design the DTS which makes GM about $17K on every sale!

The middle class in America is having trouble right now, the affluent are not! My local BMW dealer is running out of stock on the 3 Series, and the 7 Series isn't selling that well because the new model has been "leaked" to the press. When the new 7 is available buyers will line up, I guarantee. Meanwhile the middle class inspired CTS, will be passe within a year or so and then Cadillac will have absolutely nothing to sell!

The GM Board should be walked out....

I don't think the Cadillac CTS will be passe within a year or so. It's selling very well and is garnering a lot of praise from critics. All GM has to do to keep the CTS in the spotlight is to keep the design fresh, properly equip it with needed gagets or whatever, and price and advertise it properly. I don't think that BMW and Mercede's are the only stars in the Luxury segment anymore. The Kappa platform as you basically put it was a waste of money on GM's part and I completely agree with that. Yeah GM churned out more than enough of them to satisfy demand. The Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky are beautiful and easily 2 of some of the best looking cars to ever where a GM badge but what good is all of that if you can't profit off of them. Axeing the platform was the right move but I do hope that GM will build the next Solstice/Sky on RWD platform such as the Alpha platform.

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by Gm786

I don't think the Cadillac CTS will be passe within a year or so. It's selling very well and is garnering a lot of praise from critics.

Weekend Salutations GM786:

I don't think you interpreted the spirit of my post; THE MIDDLE CLASS IS IN TROUBLE! The CTS is priced from $32K to about $45K, this is not a car designed for the affluent. The affluent have money to buy mostly anything made and they do it! About the critics; how much will you wager that they own more Asian and European cars, and would never buy the CTS?

So many here are fans and don't see the auto industry as a business. To grow especially with the overhead GM has, you have got to sell everything to a lot of buyers. One car does not a Brand make. I won't buy the CTS, because I don't fit into it comfortability (too tall). I fit the DTS, but it's kind of outdated. I have lived a successful life, do you think I will wait until 2014, to replace either of my STS's, No....I will buy something else from someone else. This is GM's problem, if I find something better, I might not be back. This is why most guys that leave one girlfriend don't come back, something new is turning them on! In business terms this is called: Loss of market share. It has happened before with Cadillac; look at the SRX, it was introduced with a so-so interior, many visited the Cadillac showrooms saw the hot exterior, then noticed the bland interior and walked away. In 2008 Cadillac re-did the interior and added features that make the SRX, a real deal. But the people who originally shopped it have bought other SUV's or Crossovers. Cadillac didn't really advertise the changes and besides Cadillac fans like us, the general public doesn't realize anything has changed.

In closing: This is no longer 1950's purchasing, people don't even necessarily walk into dealers anymore. They hear friends talk about cars, in my office it's Mercedes Benz CLS, BMW M3, or as a lot have already purchased Lexus ls 460. People who are not car people, like us just go to one of those dealers and buy without further thought. I hope I have clarified things!

[Gm786]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

Weekend Salutations GM786:

I don't think you interpreted the spirit of my post; THE MIDDLE CLASS IS IN TROUBLE! The CTS is priced from $32K to about $45K, this is not a car designed for the affluent. The affluent have money to buy mostly anything made and they do it! About the critics; how much will you wager that they own more Asian and European cars, and would never buy the CTS?

So many here are fans and don't see the auto industry as a business. To grow especially with the overhead GM has, you have got to sell everything to a lot of buyers. One car does not a Brand make. I won't buy the CTS, because I don't fit into it comfortability (too tall). I fit the DTS, but it's kind of outdated. I have lived a successful life, do you think I will wait until 2014, to replace either of my STS's, No....I will buy something else from someone else. This is GM's problem, if I find something better, I might not be back. This is why most guys that leave one girlfriend don't come back, something new is turning them on! In business terms this is called: Loss of market share. It has happened before with Cadillac; look at the SRX, it was introduced with a so-so interior, many visited the Cadillac showrooms saw the hot exterior, then noticed the bland interior and walked away. In 2008 Cadillac re-did the interior and added features that make the SRX, a real deal. But the people who originally shopped it have bought other SUV's or Crossovers. Cadillac didn't really advertise the changes and besides Cadillac fans like us, the general public doesn't realize anything has changed.

In closing: This is no longer 1950's purchasing, people don't even necessarily walk into dealers anymore. They hear friends talk about cars, in my office it's Mercedes Benz CLS, BMW M3, or as a lot have already purchased Lexus ls 460. People who are not car people, like us just go to one of those dealers and buy without further thought. I hope I have clarified things!

Greetings PAULSTS1:

I would first like to comment on what you said about the "MIDDLE CLASS" People. First off all me as well as my family are "MIDDLE CLASS". Do I or anyone in my family that I personally know own a Cadillac CTS or any other Cadillac? The answer is NO! I don't know where you came up with the Upper Class or the afluent not either considering or owning any of Cadillac's new luxury cars or trucks and the new CTS to be more specific. Secondly, I can't comprehend how the CTS which I priced out directly on Cadillac's WEB SITE which has a starting price range of $36,720 for the base model equipped with the Direct Injection engine that shoots up to about $52,000 for a fully loaded CTS with the DI engine is catergorized as a "MIDDLE CLASS" luxury performance sedan. Oh and when you add on TAX, TITLE, LICENSE, and DEALER FEES, the final price probably totals to about $53,000 or $54,000. You call that "MIDDLE CLASS"???? ABSOLUTELY NOT! If the new CTS competes HEAD TO HEAD with the BMW 3-series, 5-series, or the Merceces C-350 sport Sedan how it not be an upper class car? Something is seriously wrong with your terminology if you still consider the CTS and MIDDLE CLASS luxury sport sedan.

There may be other things that I may need to respond to in your previous post but I'll reserve that for another time.

[WWI Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by jzEllis

hmmmm, i think we as a collective may be missing the greater point. the fact that a gigantic company like GM, which is supposedly suffering from the type of hubris best associated with drunkin lumbering oppresive giants, actually designed constructed and mass produced a overall EXCELLENT small n/a / turbo roadster for the masses, that out ran, or handles with the best the world had to offer in it's class, at BLUE COLLAR PRICES!!! 19-very low 20's NO LESS!!!

it's amazing that this even happened from ANY automaker, let alone GM! and they even managed to avoid the "chick car" stigma that the admittedly excellent Miata always and still suffers from!

in fact, when i think about the fact that it has /had hydra formed chassis, hood, fenders, and etc; AND a class leading giant killing 4 cylinder (turbo variants can handle 500hp on stock internals) independent suspension, good looks, excellent moddability!!!

can any one say future classic, and definitely future collectible!

in fact, i'm mad at myself for never seriously considering one!!

to think, i bought TWO GTOs, and i'm ready to buy a new Camaro or Vette, and i could have had a Solstice GXP or Saturn Sky redline for less than any of those!!!

You hit the nail on the head, jzEllis Love my Solstice GXP...great daily driver despite what anyone says...I commute with me and my laptop in a briefcase and a gym bag in the trunk. Top goes down, right foot goes down, smiles goes on...managed north of 38 MPG on a perfect cruising day last week, and have managed to off Eurocars and big Detroit Iron when not in a cruising mood. And the car is stunning when you walk up to it...I just love it!!!!!

[Xenon]

Well cars like these, as well as luxury cars usually take the biggest hit in a slumping economy so in a way its a good move for GM to axe this platform. If anything they need to consolidate everything that they possibly can to save money.

[L32 To Go]

Thank you for speaking up, WW1 Flying Ace. I agree with jzEllis too.

There's an awful lot of ignorance being displayed on the forum by people who know little about Kappas, repeat what they hear, and have no intention of owning one.

They seem to be condemning the two roadsters as a failure from marketing and performance view, citing unsubstantiated $10,000 loss per unit and the cancellation of Kappa II platform development as implication that current Kappa platform is unworthy and substandard.

We Kappa owners know that the performance is in territory costing one and half to two times more and the stunning look is in territory costing three to five times more and the Kappa platform takes the back seat to none.

GM will do what GM has to do to survive and if Kappas in fact get cut, I know for one that it will not cast a shadow on my ownership or diminish my enjoyment. I will rush out and trade mine for another before they are gone and I will be grateful that a car like that was available in my lifetime.

Thanks for building it, Bob.