GMI Exclusive: Kappa II Platform Axed From R&D

[GM2004]

Originally Posted by Ed Arcuri

I'm a new Solstice owner and I'm not glad the KappaII program has been cut.
Here's hoping that GM will continue to build a small, affordable roadster on some platform.
I've only had the car two days and I can see a number of places it could have been made less expensively. I've also seen a few places GM could have improved the cars' desirability.
The shortcomings of the car don't bother me. I've had MG's, FIAT's, and Fiero's. The Solstice GXP is a world beater compared to those. The only sports car I've owned which I would compare favorably was a 1969 AMX; though the cars are greatly different and each appropriate for the time in which it was built.
Many people have asked me what kind of car I'm driving. When I tell them it's a Pontiac. the expression on their face tells me that they're reconsidering their whole conception of Pontiac. GM needs this kind of car.
Cheers,
Ed

I afraid a current plan I heard is the current Kappa's could cease as early as next year if the current market conditions continue to decline. GM is at a loss on every kappa unit sold. The Kappa's are halo car to improve GM's image. The rumor also continues that the hard top will only be offered in 2009 if sales disappoint. If you think you may want a targa top Pontiac Solstice grab one because they may not be around long.

[Gm786]

Originally Posted by GM2004

I afraid a current plan I heard is the current Kappa's could cease as early as next year if the current market conditions continue to decline. GM is at a loss on every kappa unit sold. The Kappa's are halo car to improve GM's image. The rumor also continues that the hard top will only be offered in 2009 if sales disappoint. If you think you may want a targa top Pontiac Solstice grab one because they may not be around long.

Yeah but hopefully GM will build the next Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky off of the new Alpha platform and fix the flaws the current ones have. I think it's sad that GM's hasn't been making a profit off of the Sky/Solstice. They are stunning cars!

[L32 To Go]

Lichtronamo: Mazda sold 10,790 MX-5 Miatas in the US during the same period. What this again shows is GM's inefficiency related to the development and marketing of too many brands/models in NA.


I don't look at it that way. Solstice and Sky together sold a hefty 37% more cars than Miata. So what if it takes two models to outsell one. Nothing wrong with that. I believe that Solstice alone might sell something like 11,000 cars, the other 3789 buyers might not, but having a Sky gives the buyers additional choices. I am one of those buyers. I sat on the fence for a long time until I actually cooled off on Solstice somewhat, but when Sky came along, I was in for good.

But before I made my deposit I also drove MX-5. There are things on MX-5 that I would like in the Sky, and there are things on the Sky that MX-5 does not have. But I will confess, the looks of the Sky was the biggest factor.

Actually, I was not even in the market for a roadster. If I was, I could have bought a Miata long time ago. Miata just did not do it for me. For me and for many other Solstice/Sky owners it was a huge "gotta have it" factor.

Wherever you got your Miata sales numbers, you could probably tell if Miata or any other roadster sales suffered much because of Kappas. I suspect not. Which means that Kappas increased the roadster market. Most industries fight for a bigger slice of the pie, it's very unusual to enter the market and increase the size of the pie.

[member12]

News:

GM cuts all good cars, cites high cost of making quality products

"We've decided to stop trying to make money by building and selling good cars....we can't do it."
"....we forgot how to do our jobs"

[AndrewGS]

Originally Posted by member12

News:

GM cuts all good cars, cites high cost of making quality products

"We've decided to stop trying to make money by building and selling good cars....we can't do it."
"....we forgot how to do our jobs"

Exactly.

[Gm786]

Originally Posted by member12

News:

GM cuts all good cars, cites high cost of making quality products

"We've decided to stop trying to make money by building and selling good cars....we can't do it."
"....we forgot how to do our jobs"

I wouldn't go as far as to say that.... This move on GM's part is justified due to the fact that they weren't making a profit off of the Solstice/Sky. It was basically a waste although they were great looking roadsters. As I have stated in my previous posts, I do hope that GM builds the next Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky on the Alpha platform.

[Lichtronamo]

Originally Posted by L32 To Go

Lichtronamo: Mazda sold 10,790 MX-5 Miatas in the US during the same period. What this again shows is GM's inefficiency related to the development and marketing of too many brands/models in NA.


I don't look at it that way. Solstice and Sky together sold a hefty 37% more cars than Miata. So what if it takes two models to outsell one. Nothing wrong with that. I believe that Solstice alone might sell something like 11,000 cars, the other 3789 buyers might not, but having a Sky gives the buyers additional choices. I am one of those buyers. I sat on the fence for a long time until I actually cooled off on Solstice somewhat, but when Sky came along, I was in for good.

But before I made my deposit I also drove MX-5. There are things on MX-5 that I would like in the Sky, and there are things on the Sky that MX-5 does not have. But I will confess, the looks of the Sky was the biggest factor.

Actually, I was not even in the market for a roadster. If I was, I could have bought a Miata long time ago. Miata just did not do it for me. For me and for many other Solstice/Sky owners it was a huge "gotta have it" factor.

Wherever you got your Miata sales numbers, you could probably tell if Miata or any other roadster sales suffered much because of Kappas. I suspect not. Which means that Kappas increased the roadster market. Most industries fight for a bigger slice of the pie, it's very unusual to enter the market and increase the size of the pie.

The sales numbers came from Ford and represented only NA sales. Therein lies the rub - Mazda sells essentially the same car all over the world. If you compared total Kappa sales to total Miata sales, Miata more than likely wins hands down.

[civilzues]

We knew there wouldn't be an Kappa II. Rumor was that it was going to pushed onto Alpha. Also, with all these rumors, it would be nice if the Future Products would be updated!!

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by samkung

why cant gm use its kappa to make affordable small rwd cars for Pontiac and Holden? i mean other than the current 2 models, why not make some 1-series size cars?

I want a new RWD Sunbird, on Kappa or SWB Alpha
I want a Cadillac ATS, on Kappa or SWB Alpha.
And Holden can get one too i suppose.

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by Lichtronamo

The sales numbers came from Ford and represented only NA sales. Therein lies the rub - Mazda sells essentially the same car all over the world. If you compared total Kappa sales to total Miata sales, Miata more than likely wins hands down.

That may have to do with GMs total ignorance toward Right Hook vehicles. I can't believe they spent so much money building a platform and then did not bothering to make it RHD for other parts of the planet. It is like they knew it was doomed to fail. Sometimes I just look at GMNA, scratch my head and wonder.

[Odin]

GM still doesn't think globally, not selling the sky or solstice worldwide is a case in point, perhaps with that and a more efficient platform it could of succeeded, just look at the miata/mx5 if you want proof, it's into its 3rd generation.

[RedVee8]

Originally Posted by Odin

GM still doesn't think globally, not selling the sky or solstice worldwide is a case in point, perhaps with that and a more efficient platform it could of succeeded, just look at the miata/mx5 if you want proof, it's into its 3rd generation.

Yes!
Indeed just about everything that comes out of GM NA is in the same boat.

[JTWard]

Originally Posted by nsap

The current generation of cars will run its full life, then they're done.

I'm not going to boo this one. I think this is a good move. If something HAS to be cut, it should be product lines like this...niche products that do not sell much and are money pits. Business wise this was a no-brainier.

Unfortunately this is a sample of what GM is going to have to do If they are to come out of this "economy in shambles" situation. I think the Kappa was a nice platform, but it can't hold itself up, so it needs to be put aside till things get better. Saddly, What Too many Americans haven't realized that when they write a check for that Honda or Nissan, they are ading to this problem. At one point in the past, Japanese and German cars were a better buy, But in the last ten years GM has really pushed the 'Quality' issue and it has made a big difference. I own a C-5 Corvette, and after owning five Corvettes, this is the best built and performing corvette I've ever owned. I've driven late model, Pontiac, Buick and Cadillac's and they have been driven over a hundred thousand miles with very little costs. America needs to look at our economy not as 'a' problem, but rather 'Our' problem. Toyota and Honda would be glad to assume the American market in total. We need to wake up folks !

[L32 To Go]

The sales numbers came from Ford and represented only NA sales. Therein lies the rub - Mazda sells essentially the same car all over the world. If you compared total Kappa sales to total Miata sales, Miata more than likely wins hands down.

Thank you Lichtronamo, I never doubted that Miata outsells Kappas worldwide. I simply pointed out that Kappa numbers would not have been as high had there been only one model to choose from. And Saturn dealers were extremely happy to have the Sky on the showroom floor.

I am still curious whether Kappa introduction made much if any impact on Miata sales, in US that is. If you can tell me that I would appreciate it. My guess is not, if there was a drop in Miata sales, it could be due to any number of other contributing factors, you never know.

But let's not worry about who outsells who. Kappa production numbers are declining and that was expected. The initial huge demand was met, but now GM is watching the slope, is it sliding down further or is it stabilizing as it seems to have, but cold weather is approaching causing the numbers sure to slide at least until the next season. At current rate, GM has decided not to progress with Kappa II platform. But if the sales continue a downward trend, GM may be forced to cut the Kappas. Some people will be sad, others will cheer wildly. But you what, I don't give a flip. I got mine and enjoying it and that's all that matters.

The point is that to me and most other Kappa owners it's immaterial who outsells who. We just love driving our cars and most likely would not be driving a roadster at all. Most of them enjoy the uniqueness and rareness, and if GM drops the Kappas, that will make our cars even more so. But I doubt that many will switch to Miata. From what I have seen Miata hardly exists for them. I think that Kappa people have their own taste and once that demographic is exhausted, it may be the end of Kappas.

But Miata will soldier on, their owners feeling smug about all the accolades that have been piled on it in the past three years.

Thank you Bob for building it.

[ksr]

Originally Posted by JTWard

Unfortunately this is a sample of what GM is going to have to do If they are to come out of this "economy in shambles" situation. I think the Kappa was a nice platform, but it can't hold itself up, so it needs to be put aside till things get better. Saddly, What Too many Americans haven't realized that when they write a check for that Honda or Nissan, they are ading to this problem. At one point in the past, Japanese and German cars were a better buy, But in the last ten years GM has really pushed the 'Quality' issue and it has made a big difference. I own a C-5 Corvette, and after owning five Corvettes, this is the best built and performing corvette I've ever owned. I've driven late model, Pontiac, Buick and Cadillac's and they have been driven over a hundred thousand miles with very little costs. America needs to look at our economy not as 'a' problem, but rather 'Our' problem. Toyota and Honda would be glad to assume the American market in total. We need to wake up folks !

You're right.

As DeLorenzo from AutoExtremist put it yesterday:

"Instead, this country has become a jaded and fractionalized nation of consumer sponges driven by the lackadaisical mantra of “whatever” and “what’s in it for me?” A nation whose people couldn’t be bothered with such esoteric concepts as this country’s eroding manufacturing base and the nation’s burgeoning inability to lead on the world stage."