GMI Exclusive: Kappa II Platform Axed From R&D

[Caleb02]

Originally Posted by GMinTheDriveway

Kappa in its current incarnation is a failure. The SKY and Solstice are so obviously "vacuous supermodels" which, as they were obviously designed from the outside-in instead of the other way around are a fleeting interest at best. You remember the beautiful woman you wanted to live out your years with on first sight, only to actually talk to her and realize there absolutely must be more or you will live a tortureous life of mental unfulfillment.
I remember Bob Lutz sitting in the Solstice like "look at me, even my big tall self fits!" and every week I have people smaller than Bob try to wedge themselves into their dream car only to discover that the dream is much better than reality.

Rushed to market, these cars make absolutely no sense. They are porn stars of the automotive world. Try to have a meaningful relationship with one and you will find they are better for showing off.

The looks on the outside are great, but until they "figure it out" as in : Make the car fit real humans and have at least a modicum of practicality ala Z4/MX5 this will always be a money losing disappointment of a car(s).

I will not miss them when they are gone one bit and thank God my old boss did not let me buy a SKY and forced me to get my roadster fix from BMW.

Sorry for all you SKY/Solstice owner/lovers, I sincerely hope you enjoy your compromise and (as if I had any say in designing it) I apologize about the ergonomics, top, trunk, leaky differential, bad brake boosting, needless dealer markups, poorly engineered clearances and lack of obviously needed features.

i always thought that the saturn sky should have been the Pontiac solstace and the saturn ski should have been a Buick model...

[Bravada]

Ok after hearing this, I totally am for GM cutting some brands. They can't focus on all of their brands effectively.

It had NOTHING to do with brands, and a lot with totally incompetent management and rather weak engineering.

this would probably hold true for the G5 G6.

80% of Pontiac car sales, sans Torrent ("truck")

GM cant keep building everything for everybody.

That's the only point of being the world's largest automaker. Or is GM ready to concede defeat?

[buildacariwant]

Originally Posted by Bravada

That's the only point of being the world's largest automaker. Or is GM ready to concede defeat?

being the biggest is pointless with continued record losses.

[Gm786]

Originally Posted by Caleb02

If GM comes out today and says look, we cant justify a RWD Kappa but we can base it off a FWD platform. Then GM says we cant do rwd because of cafe and the low volume that the kappa sells at (70,000 world wide). Would you rather GM kill the kappa or have a fwd kappa? I say offer a kappa with fwd but have an option to have awd.

I don't think GM would do something stupid like that. The Pontiac Slostice and Saturn Sky are supposed to be RWD roadsters and I think GM will keep it that way. Maybe GM will build them on the new Alpha platform?

[Lichtronamo]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Ill take this apart in 2 ways.

#1: Dont forget Solstice and Sky for the foreseeable future. Camaro and Camaro Vert. Pontiac G8, as well as a lower priced RWD car from Caddy.

#2: Go ahead and list me down all the other makers of affordable RWD cars, hell...RWD cars overall that make more then GM under 35k?
GM has
Camaro and Vert
Solstice
Sky
CTS and CTS Coupe and Wagon
G8 and G8 ST

Ford? Mustang aaaaaaaaaand...Fleet only Panther cars
Chrysler? 300, Charger, Challenger
Honda? S2000
Toyota? Lexus IS,GS
Nissan? 370Z, G37 coupe and sedan.

So GM kills Kappa 2, so that means the death of all RWD in GM is over. The small, under 50k unit production 2 door roadster life will end within 5 years, and that means that RWD in GM is dead, and that GM is stupid and dead.
Someone explain that to me?
And anyone think thats its possible to build Solstice or Sky off another RWD platform like Alpha?

Everyone keeps making assumptions off Alpha because Caddy is getting it that its going to cost a lot.
Zeta didnt cost a lot, and Alpha will be a cheaper smaller version of Zeta, most likely to use Zeta's rear subframe along with a cheap and easy front strut system.

But you assume that Zeta continues - it seems like GM is axing NA variants of that platform as soon as they come to market (G8).

[buildacariwant]

wow a lot of upset people.

GM doesnt need these twins plus the G6 convertible and corvette and XLR and camaro convertible and saab 9-3 convertible all for sale in NA. although all are at different price points GM doesnt need 7 open air niche models. the convertible market is already small to begin with and they are losing billions quarterly.

hard cuts like these show GM is at least trying to turn things around.

[C/K Man]

Reatta, anyone? Old familiar tale.

[GM-Joe]

They'll probably combine Kappa with Alpha in about 6 years, or at least that is what I would do; then you'd have a convertible, hatch, sedan off one platform and save a billion dollars!

[Buick Riviera]

Originally Posted by GM-Joe

They'll probably combine Kappa with Alpha in about 6 years, or at least that is what I would do; then you'd have a convertible, hatch, sedan off one platform and save a billion dollars!

These only RWD Platforums is needed is, Alpha Platforum and Sigma platforum. The next generation of the camaro will be on the alpha platforum. Saturn Sky and the Pontiac Slostic will have it too.

[Lichtronamo]

They were trying to get rid of Sigma because it was too expensive - thus the Zeta Cadillac.

[Buick Riviera]

Originally Posted by Lichtronamo

They were trying to get rid of Sigma because it was too expensive - thus the Zeta Cadillac.

Well it's not helping being big and heavy.

[SimonDavid]

Originally Posted by spidge

Wish we had gotten the Opel Speedster.

But we do have that car now, as the Lotus Elise.

Good point. I always thought GM had 2 choices on this : either go the Opel Speedster route and get someone else to build the car for you. Or the BMW Z3 route - share a mainstream unibody platform with a high volume performance sedan.

GM has no business wasting time building a low volume loss making handbuilt sports car on a unique platform which cannot be used for anything else.

But then that's always been the Lutz way - alot of hype, interesting low volume niche products, the mainstream products never quite get delivered. and the company tanks.

I hope to god he doesnt do the same thing with the Volt but the signs there already are not good - the price is creeping up and it's useless in Europe or anywhere else (like India????) where people dont have driveways. Another technically interesting diversion. Meanwhile Toyota delivers its millionth Prius.

[Bravada]

But then that's always been the Lutz way - alot of hype, interesting low volume niche products, the mainstream products never quite get delivered. and the company tanks.

I am afraid you are quite right, and also on the Volt. Lutz is the car czar, but somehow cannot get the mainstream business straight.

[Lichtronamo]

Originally Posted by Buick Riviera

Well it's not helping being big and heavy.

I don't disagree.

[Lichtronamo]

Interestingly, the Kappa program shows a fundamental problem within GM:

YTD through July, GM has sold 8,113 Solstici (sp?) and 6,676 Skies (sp?). That's a fairly equal 55% Pontiacs vs. 45% Saturns for a total of 14,789. By comparison, Mazda sold 10,790 MX-5 Miatas in the US during the same period. What this again shows is GM's inefficiency related to the development and marketing of too many brands/models in NA:

Two US Kappas barely outsell the MX-5 Miata
Three US Epsilons don't outsell Camry (or Accord?)
Three US Lambdas don't outsell Highlander/RX or Pilot/MDX