GM Turns Up the Horsepower With U.S. Powertrain Development Center

[Bokl]

Originally Posted by kodos78

GM's powertrains are the least of their problems.

Look at the engine in my HHR SS: 2.0L(!) Direct Injected Turbo producing 260hp and gets 30 miles per gallon on the freeway!

And of course, no one needs to point out the LS7, LS9, etc... Another poster posted the fuel economy of the current Cobalt, and it's spot-on for its class as well. Sounds like the 1.4L Turbo in the Cruze may be class leading.

I agree that the DOHC V8 could be a problem for Cadillac. But if you have a good enough V6 (maybe twin turbo) it may be a non-issue in the future -- especially if you can spin it in a "eco-friendly" manner. I don't personally give a rat's ass about the eco-friendly angle, but I know a lot of people do. Make it a hybrid of some kind and you can get good press.

I agree GM has some good engines. Like that 2.0 DI engine. But they do not used them. Where do you get them? At Cobalt ss, sky red line. Why not replace 3.6l in g6 and give it 2.0 di. At least to be different from aura. See gm has some good engines but they never put them in cars that should be put in. They always put crapy engines. LIke that 3.6l that can only get 26 mpg. while honda accord with 3.5l produces more HP and it can manage 29 mpg. Why cant gm use that 2.0 in mid size cars. Give people a choice.

[blaksabb]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Why bother with a DOHC V8 when you have a Gen IV or Gen V that will make more power, overall smaller, cheaper to build, and more fuel efficent?

Can I get an AMEN!

[tgunnd39]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Why bother with a DOHC V8 when you have a Gen IV or Gen V that will make more power, overall smaller, cheaper to build, and more fuel efficent?

Excellent observation, BigAl! People think it has to have DOHC and VVT or its not worthy of being in their car.

My .02

[tgunnd39]

Originally Posted by Bokl

I agree GM has some good engines. Like that 2.0 DI engine. But they do not used them. Where do you get them? At Cobalt ss, sky red line. Why not replace 3.6l in g6 and give it 2.0 di. At least to be different from aura. See gm has some good engines but they never put them in cars that should be put in. They always put crapy engines. LIke that 3.6l that can only get 26 mpg. while honda accord with 3.5l produces more HP and it can manage 29 mpg. Why cant gm use that 2.0 in mid size cars. Give people a choice.

Sorry, missed on that one. To whit,

Honda 3.5 V6 275 HP, 250 lb. ft of torgue

GM 3.6 DI V6 304 HP, 273 lb. ft of torque

Yes the Honda may get 29 MPG, but I regularly get 28 in my CTS on the highway, so I don't think one should be crowing when one's facts are not accurate. Lot's of love though!

My .02

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Why bother with a DOHC V8 when you have a Gen IV or Gen V that will make more power, overall smaller, cheaper to build, and more fuel efficent?

Agree!

[Bokl]

Originally Posted by tgunnd39

Sorry, missed on that one. To whit,

Honda 3.5 V6 275 HP, 250 lb. ft of torgue

GM 3.6 DI V6 304 HP, 273 lb. ft of torque

Yes the Honda may get 29 MPG, but I regularly get 28 in my CTS on the highway, so I don't think one should be crowing when one's facts are not accurate. Lot's of love though!

My .02

Why are you comparing engine from cts to an engine from accord. How about you compare two same cars. Accord and malibu. and you will see that accord has more hp and it gets 3mpg better. IF gm put 3.6 di in malibu i would compare it to accord. So do not try to play stupid here.

[big swede]

Normally I hate these types of press releases but this one shows true committment to future drivetrain development, not just engine development which is awesome. There should be lot's of exciting things coming from here in the near future. Here to hoping DSG's will be some of the first benefits along with more efficient small engines.

[HotCarNut]

Originally Posted by Bokl

Why are you comparing engine from cts to an engine from accord. How about you compare two same cars. Accord and malibu. and you will see that accord has more hp and it gets 3mpg better. IF gm put 3.6 di in malibu i would compare it to accord. So do not try to play stupid here.

You also have to realize that the 3.6 in the Malibu will soon be a DI 3.6 like the CTS. However, for your current argument.....

A lot more than the engine goes into fuel efficiency. To truly get down to the root of the issue look at 4 basic things:

Engine
Transmission Ratios & Rear End Gearing
Co-efficient of Drag
Weight

Don't blame the 3.6l for the fact that the Malibu is the heaviest car in its class. I'm no engineer, but I would be willing to bet that all things being equal the two engines themselves are pretty close.

[Olds88]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

All these powertrain development labs and we still can't get a fuel efficient engine out in a reasonable time frame... we can't get a high tech DOHC V8... And we can't get a quiet, refined engine across the board.

I mean really GM... quit managing by PR release!!

Why get a "high tech DOHC" V8 (overhead camshaft is chronologically OLDER than overhead valve) when your pushrod V8s are just as good, if not better? They're more efficient, much cheaper to build (which means V8s for the masses and I know how you hate nice stuff everyone can afford) and leads to a $30k G8 being faster and more efficient than a $50k BMW yuppie-cruiser. GM's pushrods have VVT, AFM, soon to use direct injection, etc.

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Why bother with a DOHC V8 when you have a Gen IV or Gen V that will make more power, overall smaller, cheaper to build, and more fuel efficent?

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Originally Posted by DenCo

Example of efficiency:
Cobalt/G5 - 24/33 (28)
Astra - 24/30 (27)
Focus - 24/33 (28)
Civic - 25/36 (29)
Corolla - 27/35 (30)
Spectra - 24/32 (27)
Elantra - 25/33 (28)
Jetta/Rabbit - 21/29 (24)

Seems pretty much on par, no?

Cobalt XFE gets 25/36 which puts it right at the top of the pack.

Originally Posted by DenCo

You've also STILL BEEN UNABLE TO BACK-UP THE "COMPETITION IS FASTER" ARGUMENT nor your opinion that they aren't doing things at a reasonable speed. I knowq you think that Toyota does it in 9 months and that the results come out flawless and with the gift of samurai super powers, but until we can see actual proof of that, I'm calling BS and with good reason: GMI staff memeber status does not absolve one from being called-out when they make ridiculous claims, nor from the need to back it up/prove it when called-out if they want to be taken seriously.

*cough* Tundra *cough*

Originally Posted by DenCo

As far as high-tech engines go, what about VVT, direct injection and AFM, for starters. These things are being implemented in engines across the board, from I4s to V8s. The Northstars aren't exactly archaic, either, and would fill the DOHC V8 requirement of yours. The only place they seem to be behind is in hp numbers when compared to some of the latest efforts by other automakers, but what's on paper and how things perform in reality are apples and oranges. There's a LOT more than hp numbers at play when you really want to compare the performance of vehicles or their powertrains.

Excellent point. I'd venture to say GM backed off the DOHC thing because they realized the pushrod Chevy V8s are better anyways.

Originally Posted by DenCo

Whether and engine is OHC or OHV also should not matter these days: have you driven a car with the NEW GM pushrod engines in it? We're not talking about the 3100 SFi anymore with the 3500, 3900, LS Series, etc. They have plenty of go and manage not to sound like a tractor, not that the older ones were that bad either. They also now feature some of the latest tech, like VVT or AFM as well. They aren't very noisy, they don't vibrate or shake, they aren't slouches... What more do you want/expect? Silence, rocket-like propulsion and 300 mpg? Same as my compact car fuel economy comparo up there, I hate to break it to you but they're largely on par with the competition (OHC engines too, since I was speaking about pushrods in the end).

I think you need to stop criticizing by outdated, false perception.

I think his problem comes from two sources, he's only familiar with the Chevy small block as its presented in performance cars and trucks, both of which have loud exhaust tuning. I'd be pissed if I turned on my truck and DIDN'T hear a nice rumble. Much in contrast, the LT1 when put under Roadmaster's hood was about the quietest V8 you could get at the time.

Second source is good ol' fashioned snobbery. Folks with money wanting exclusive s*** the masses can't have. Pushrod V8s are cheap to build and completely competitive with their expensive, less reliable cammer counterparts. I can go buy a $30k Camaro and waste the far more expensive G37 or 370Z. People don't like when their expensive toys are matched by cars everyone can afford. Also GM's pushrod engines are used in trucks. We can't have that in our snob-mobile car can we? No in order for an engine to be acceptable it has to not be shared with "regular people".

Originally Posted by Bokl

I agree GM has some good engines. Like that 2.0 DI engine. But they do not used them. Where do you get them? At Cobalt ss, sky red line. Why not replace 3.6l in g6 and give it 2.0 di. At least to be different from aura. See gm has some good engines but they never put them in cars that should be put in. They always put crapy engines. LIke that 3.6l that can only get 26 mpg. while honda accord with 3.5l produces more HP and it can manage 29 mpg. Why cant gm use that 2.0 in mid size cars. Give people a choice.

Hey VJCD how are you? Maybe people don't want a high strung turbo motor in their commuter coffin? Honda's engine gets better f/e because it features cylinder deactivation. Please educate yourself first.

Originally Posted by tgunnd39

Excellent observation, BigAl! People think it has to have DOHC and VVT or its not worthy of being in their car.

My .02

Quite the contrary. If its not pushrod, I don't want it. I like my engines torquey and reliable not revvy and high-strung.

[tgunnd39]

Originally Posted by Bokl

Why are you comparing engine from cts to an engine from accord. How about you compare two same cars. Accord and malibu. and you will see that accord has more hp and it gets 3mpg better. IF gm put 3.6 di in malibu i would compare it to accord. So do not try to play stupid here.

Please, don't set the parameters AFTER you lose the debate!

I put out the best of the DOHC V6s that both companies produce using widely available information from the internet.

Once again, your facts are not correct. Not my fault. I am just the messenger!

[GMusa]

This should be really good for GM... GM already has some of the best engines (and transmissions) in the industry and this should make them even better!

[Bokl]

Hey VJCD how are you? Maybe people don't want a high strung turbo motor in their commuter coffin? Honda's engine gets better f/e because it features cylinder deactivation. Please educate yourself first.


[/quote]


I do not know who Vjcd is. But to make g6 different don't you think gm should of use different engine like that 2.0 turbo and it is a great engine. What i am saying what is the point of having good engines when you never get to use them. Look they are using those 3.9 l engine/ that engine is crap. Bad fuel economy HP low. Why can't they replace those engine with a good 2.0 turbo. There is no reason to have good engines if you only put it to limited use.

[vncj96]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

All these powertrain development labs and we still can't get a fuel efficient engine out in a reasonable time frame... we can't get a high tech DOHC V8... And we can't get a quiet, refined engine across the board.

I mean really GM... quit managing by PR release!!

I for the fact love that GM has stuck with OHV less costly to fix( I can do it myself), less weight, and more reliabliity with less moving parts. give me displacement over cams anyday of the week!

[uvaeeman]

Originally Posted by Olds88

Hey VJCD

He-who-must-not-be-named!!

[Bokl]

Originally Posted by uvaeeman

He-who-must-not-be-named!!

I really do not know who that is? Who is that guy and why do you keep telling me that i am Vjdc?