GM Shows 2009 Changes!

[SwampFoxZ71]

Originally Posted by 88ls1blazer

Good luck doing that AND purchasing new cars in the future.

Aluminum is better for NVH, it is lighter to help shave weight, it is surperior in transferring heat, and is almost the same cost. Plus the durability is pretty darned good (some would argue better then Iron, I would be one of them), as good as 3800's were, Gen III and Gen IV LS motors are easily matching their reliability with none of the intake manifold issues seen in the 3800. IIRC the only V8 that GM makes that still uses an Iron block is the 6.0 in SOME of the trucks, and maybe the 4.8. The 5.3 DOD, 6.2, and some 6.0 have moved to aluminum foundations.

Now if your argument is based on iron block w/ aluminum head, get something called an MLS (multi-layered steel) head gaskets. Never seen an issue on an engine that had good parts. Hell, my Olds Alero w. a 2.4 twin-cam just rolled past 200k miles on original everything, except clutch, plugs, and filter... Runs just as good as Day one...

If I am not mistaken, the last full iron block/head combo is the 4.3L V6 used in the GMT-900's. I'm pretty sure everything else has at least iron block and aluminum heads...may be wrong, but that's what I was getting from everything I've seen...

[SwampFoxZ71]

Originally Posted by nsap

GM does not have any FWD 5-Speeds. Yes, they have the 5L50 and 5L60, but both are RWD transmissions...which isn't going to do anything for the Lucerne. The Opel ones are likely Aisin units like the Equinox.

Only application of a 5 speed auto (I am aware of) was with the first year or two of the Ions as they had the 5spd available.

[SAngelo]

I hope the Malibu and Aura get the 3.6 DI !!!!!!!

[SwampFoxZ71]

Originally Posted by ogg vorbis

compact graphite iron is the choice material for diesel engine blocks...we'll see MORE of them!

cast iron is better for nvh! aluminum is a better conductor, but there's a thermal break at the IRON liner...which also complicates casting and limits bore size. ohv engines with cast iron blocks are still lighter than all aluminum dohc (ohv has a lower c of g). it's not a benefit in itself, but to offset a [weight] disadvantage in the heads. they don't use it because it's more durable.

the LS1 block is $1500, while the 6L iron block is $500. 300% higher cost is not 'almost the same'. the C5R block is $6500 and can take 1000 hp. the LSX iron block is $1900 and can take 2500 hp. the 2JZ has a cast iron block, and street engines see north of 700 hp on stock parts.

marine engines are often ALL cast iron. you can get away with aluminum in cars if you don't overheat them for too long. not worrying about fasteners seizing, stripping and heli-coil tapping them is another good reason.

an aluminum block with nikasil or silicon liners matches piston expansion rate, thus you can reduce allowances, blowby, cold engine piston slap, hp, etc. they still coat the pistons with iron. the gt-r needs better coolant management to keep parts from warping.

high heat transfer also means you lose heat from combustion, so you need to increase compression ratio to compensate. ice are most mechanically efficient at 10.1:1. increasing compression raises thermal efficiency, and lowers mechanical efficiency past this point.

you can never go wrong using quality parts.

so is the lucerne the only car with an ohv v6? has anyone announced when the ohv v6 dies? if the ohv v8 can live on, the v6 should have an even stronger position in gm's lineup!

No, the 4.3L V6 lives on in the trucks. But the ohv v6 appears to be gone from the car lineup once the 3800 goes...

[mikesright]

Originally Posted by SAngelo

NSAP, thanks for answering my post. I think part of the problem is GM has too many models to update. I like the idea of Buick and Pontiac being combined, Chevrolet should be the only division with a full line-up. If GM had to cut divisions I would be happy with Cadillac, Chevrolet and Saturn-(you need Saturn, its the only division with all competitive cars) and then GMC, Saab, Hummer.
- Well I am glad a new Lacrosse is coming, the new Traverse for Chevy and the dated Envoy and Trailblazer are going. I would drop the Saturn Outlook because of Lambda overkill and perhaps cannibalization of the wonderful Acadia and Enclave. I think the new Cobalt will follow the Lacrosse, followed by a new Equinox

-Any news on the new Impala ?

A big reason why you see quite a few "dated" models in the lineup right now is due to GM now synchronizing itself globally, which puts it in a bit of a transition period. None of GM's products are really that ancient in the grand scheme of things, like the Trailblazer, which was new for 2002. I believe the 4runner from Toyota is from the same vintage, and Ford has 2 mainstream models, the Ranger and Crown Vic, that are older by a decade.

Starting in early 2009 (2010MY), we are going to see a flurry of new products like you've never seen from any other company in the modern era of carbuilding (past yearly model changes). In addition to that, GM is beginning in earnest the progress of updating technology in its cars, like 6 speed transmissions, DI, hybrid, bluetooth synch, and more, very, very rapidly. These are recently announced changes that are becoming standard equipment on many/most vehicles.

What's very strange to me is even as GM surpasses its competition on nearly all cars and trucks in just about every single imaginable way, and makes these dream cars come true, people are having such a hard time accepting this and putting their money where their mouth was a few years ago. Where are all of these people that would supposedly purchase a vehicle that was desirable from the big 3?

[ral1960]

Originally Posted by SwampFoxZ71

No, the 4.3L V6 lives on in the trucks. But the ohv v6 appears to be gone from the car lineup once the 3800 goes...

No, the 3.5L is still in the G6, Impala, AWD Vue XE, Fleet Malibu, and I'll bet the upcoming Equinox/Terrain, which currently has the 3.4L.

[eb110americana]

The biggest piece of info to me seemed to be the 6-speeds finally making an appearance in the largest SUV's outside of the existing Escalade/Yukon Denali models. It shows GM is serious about CAFE and isn't totally oblivious to what people have been asking for. That, and the fact that most new V6 and V8 engines seem to be debuting with the 6-speed as well. I fully expect it to propagate to almost all of the GM lineup, with only the most base cars being possible exceptions. Once that occurs, I also expect to see Cadillac rocking the 8-speed to differentiate itself from lesser models by offering torque-multiplying low gear ratios for launch, several overdrive ratios to optimize a number of highway speeds (not just 55mph), and close ratios for buttery smooth shifting in between.

As for the SIDI V6 making its way into the Lambdas, it would be a good move to use it to bolster Malibu sales once the new novelty wears off. It should just be the standard V6 though, as getting better fuel economy and competitive HP figures shouldn't be optional if you are already paying for the V6. I'd rather it simply be on all V6 Malibus and the new Aura/Insignia/Vectra than reserved for a "Sport" or Red Line model only.

The Lucerne is this great car at a great price that is in search of the right powerplant and perhaps the 3.9L is it, but I have doubts. For one thing, 227HP is just barely adequate to enter the segment, and the 3.9 isn't exactly known for its efficiency either. Even the 3.5L is making 219HP in other cars while the 3.9 made 240 on others before it was discontinued. This output seems more in line with the G6 convertible's lowly 222 HP 3.9L. I guess it all is in the packaging, but if they were going for a new engine, I would rather see them lose the optional V8 and just figure out a way to get the 290HP 6-speed SIDI engine from above into the chassis for its last years on the market (I figure its got another 3 years at least). HP isn't critical in this field, nor are engine bragging rights, MPG, or NVH, but all put together it seems to equal something lesser than what you would get in an Avalon. Well, at least with only one V6, there shouldn't be too much trouble with standardization next time around.

[natesriv]

How about a 4 cylinder manual Malibu or Aura with LTZ trim??? That would be a product I'd consider buying.

[b4z]

ogg_vorbis,

Great Post!

Nice to be able to cut through all the cr** you read on here with a post that has actual facts.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by 1G6

Agreed. Hard to believe that stripper Century and Cutlass Ciera models had ABS standard in the mid-'90s but the flagship Chevrolet sedan in 2008 didn't.

In the early part of this decade, GM tried a brilliant brainstorm (sic) of eliminating standard features but keeping the sticker price the same. So, cars that used to have ABS standard, it was now a 900.00 option. But hey, we didn't raise our base price.

When my stepdad bought his 2003 Grand Prix, he really didn't care if he got one with ABS or not. Found two in the same color, same trim and options, except one had ABS and one did not. After he negotiated the price down on the one without, and I told him what GM did, he went back to the dealer and told them either knock another 900.00 off of the one without, or give me the one with for the same price.

They ended up giving it to him for another 600.00 off because it was on the lot.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by natesriv

How about a 4 cylinder manual Malibu or Aura with LTZ trim??? That would be a product I'd consider buying.

Well nearly. This spring you will be able to get a Malibu LTZ with the 4 cylinder/6 speed auto combo. You can probably get paddle shifters also. It was about time GM did this.

[SDRacing]

Originally Posted by PositiveAboutGM

All 5.3L and 6.2L Tahoe's get the 6-speed, as does the Avalanche. On the half-ton pickups, no regular cab trucks get the 6-speed. On the extended cabs, only 6.0L gets the 6-speed. On the crew cabs, all get the 6-speed except for the 4.8L models.

Where did that info come from? So if the regular cab isnt available with the six speed, then I guess its not available with the 6.2 liter? Extended cabs? You say only crew cabs get the 6spd, so only crew cabs get the 6.2 liter option? God I hope not. Is the 6.2 liter only mated with the 6spd in the trucks? If all this is true, then why dont they want to compete with toyota? I hope Im missing something here....

[DuSpinnst]

So the 3800 is finally dead?

Or does it live on in cars that die in 2009.

[Adrenaline]

Originally Posted by KillerMRK

Good to see that the Impala has standard ABS now.

Also the 3800 is still in the LaCrosse, not the Lucerne. It was deleted and replaced by the 3.9, along with the lower level Northstar, and the Sport-Tuned Suspension.

While the 3800 is an amazingly good engine, is the 3.9 much worse? I think that the 09 models are better, 20 more horses, and bluetooth is a nice addition.

I've got the 3.9 in my G6 6 speed manual and it has an amazing pickup in all gears. The 3.9 in the G6 was tuned to 240HP and I do have a CAI, but all said and done I get 30-31mpg on the highway and 24-25mpg in the city.

[BrickTamland]

Originally Posted by Randiglio

Uh no.(OK, not until the '09s)

You're right, I mixed it up with the Lacrosse.