GM to return two leased jets amid criticism

[buildacariwant]

dump the corporate jets and fly business class or charter a flight when it makes sense. its ridiculous to ask for a public handout and the execs continue to do business as usual. security and work efficiency excuses dont work anymore when GM hasnt made a profit in years and is now reduced to begging for out tax dollars.

[MaxLegroom]

The CNN video that was referred to was interesting, and brings up the whole the Big 3 CEO's mistakes at once. As for the matter of executive pay, Rick Wagoner should be making about 1/2 of what Toyota's CEO is, after all, he's running a company that's apparently on its last legs, and his performance has been a factor. Of course, there have been CEOs at GM who, for their performance, should have paid for the privilege.

[tom3]

Much like my wife working at the drugstore drive thru window. Woman pulls up in an Escalade or Lexus Suv with her two kids, gets her Vicodin, hands over the welfare card to pay for it. Only difference is there's no press to cover it. Perception is reality sometimes.

[usa1]

Originally Posted by smithrobs

If they had flown the $288 coach seats advertised on the news, they would have been accused of grand standing to exaggerate the unfortunate circumstance they put themselves in. If they had drove a hybrid or rode in a hybrid bus, same thing. They "can't win for losing" and they are an easier target to grill on the hot seat than some "Financial" CEO who pulled the handle on the slot machine a few times too many. Very much like kicking your dog because you had a bad day at work.

You think they would be returning their jets if they flew coach? No. The Detroit 3, especially GM management and its board are completely and utterly out of touch. For people to continuing to defend them is baffling to me.

Mark

[Uzzy]

I say to hell with the Corporate policies in the current situations. There isn't going going to be a Corporation to enforce them if there aren't sweeping changes at all levels post-haste! If I were Wagoner, I would have been riding up to Washington driving a Volt, with Ed Welburn riding shot-gun and Bob Lutz in the back seat shooting the finger to everyone driving a foreign car, the whole way down there!

[BGH]

Is it just plain wrong headed to assume that they could just rent a plane for a 2 days rather than maintaining a fleet. Celebrities do it and people actually know who they are and they have hundreds of people with cameras following them but they can still keep their privacy during travel, and last i checked none of them where kidnapped.

And Walmart is one of the most hated companies out there, and their execs don't fly private, they fly coach, share hotel rooms, and have to bring their own pens into work.

I guess one culture is clearly superior than the other.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by BGH

Is it just plain wrong headed to assume that they could just rent a plane for a 2 days rather than maintaining a fleet. Celebrities do it and people actually know who they are and they have hundreds of people with cameras following them but they can still keep their privacy during travel, and last i checked none of them where kidnapped.

And Walmart is one of the most hated companies out there, and their execs don't fly private, they fly coach, share hotel rooms, and have to bring their own pens into work.

I guess one culture is clearly superior than the other.

I work for a relatively small private company and we don't even have to share hotel rooms or bring our own pens. I think you're exaggerating a tad.

[BGH]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

I work for a relatively small private company and we don't even have to share hotel rooms or bring our own pens. I think you're exaggerating a tad.

There was another poster on earlier pages that was talking about the CEO and founder of Walmart sharing a hotel room with other execs.

tgagneguam posted it

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by triadecho

Very true and sadly true. It shows you the progress society has made.

Oh, you mean that EMO dude and the Goth chick that were manning the X-Ray machines as I was putting my shoes and laptop in the tray at O'Hare? Ya, that's who I expected to see working airport security.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by BGH

There was another poster on earlier pages that was talking about the CEO and founder of Walmart sharing a hotel room with other execs.

tgagneguam posted it

It was his recollection of an article he reads years ago. I won't put my faith in that, sorry.

[Rocket 88]

You know its the end of the world when Washington's Congressmen start talking about how you should be saving money.... That said it was a bit stupid from a P.R. point of view. Last time these Big 3 clowns met in Washington people commented that they all drove up in the largest vehicles they make. I don't remember what Rick drove(Escalade?), but the guys from Ford (I think Bill Ford Jr. went) drove and F-150.

[tgagneguam]

Originally Posted by maherj2

Guess how Nancy Pelosi get's back and forth when she goes to California? And last time I checked, the company she's running isn't making any money either.

Some may say that perception is reality, I refuse to let anyone off the hook that easily.

You rightfully point out some hypocrisy, maherj2.

I found it especially funny to watch the financial hearings, watching Chris Dodd, Barney Frank and Chuck Schumer engaging in some good ole' fashioned political grandstanding while they berated the heads of banks-many of whom fill out generous checks to the re-election campaigns of these same politicians and whose companies earned very serious support and reassurance in 2006 from these same politicans-for not spending their welfare the way it was intended (but oddly never detailed in the legislation that earned them the welfare).

The most frustrating part of this whole business is that American citizens are either complicit in these events-Frank was easily re-elected 3+ weeks ago, presumably using A.I.G., Freddie and Fannie Mac money to fund his re-election committee-or pretty much powerless to change it. Why other politicians didn't fight his re-election bid is beyond me.

The only thing I'm left to do is address the things under my purview: saving for retirement; maintaining an emergency fund; avoiding extending my credit too far; paying down my mortgage. Basically, I'm left to run my household much, much more prudently than GM or Congress ever will.

[BGH]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

It was his recollection of an article he reads years ago. I won't put my faith in that, sorry.

Can't put your faith in google either?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...52C1A96E958260

http://stonesoupmusings.blogspot.com...h-tune-up.html

Last fall, addressing a conference of American magazine editors in Puerto Rico, Scott [CEO] finished his speech with a little story. He said Wal-Mart staff members who travel on business for the company -- literally thousands are on the road all week, Monday to Thursday -- are asked to take the pens from their hotel rooms and bring them back to the home office, to use as office supplies. [...]

They ask their employees to systematically collect the free pens from hotels and use them for work. Wal-Mart could easily be harvesting 200 dozen free pens a week -- 125,000 pens a year, or more. The company might be saving $10,000 or more on the cost of office pens. [...]

But the thing Lee Scott doesn't understand is how weird a practice that is. When I tell that story at public events, people are amused and appalled. Most of us would happily offer a friend -- or a visiting Wal-Mart executive -- a pen. [...] Indeed, shouldn't Wal-Mart buy its own pens? And heck, if you employ 1.3 million Americans, I'm betting the nation's pen makers will give you a good price.

http://www.nysun.com/editorials/kerr...al-mart/78250/

It's pretty well known.

And that's why I don't really buy into the security thing. Wal-Mart is probably one of the most hated companies and execs still fly coach.

[blkwrxsti]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

It was his recollection of an article he reads years ago. I won't put my faith in that, sorry.

You could take Sam Walton's word for it:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...6578/index.htm

Very powerful stuff, when the CEO of your company says he shares a hotel room with other execs, stays at the Holiday Inn, and eats at family restaurants because :

"Every time Wal-Mart spends one dollar foolishly, it comes right out of our customers' pockets. Every time we save them a dollar, that puts us one more step ahead of the competition -- where we always plan to be."

It makes everyone in the company less upset about the sacrifices they're making, about the fact that they might lose their jobs next month...

I've been arguing for a week that a private jet saves a CEO enough time/wait/and paperwork that it's worthwhile.

But that's not the issue here - Rick couldn't come up with a single sacrifice that HE's personally made due to the downturn in GM's fortunes. He couldn't shut one grandstanding Senator up during the middle of a negotiation. I'd expect more from a good CEO. What's worse, that grandstanding Senator, who was complicit in the "financial bailout" debacle, ends up looking like the smart one... Thank god those guys had the good sense to save us from the credit crunch. I wish they'd sent Lutz to the hearing - that would have been fun.

BTW - in Sam Walton's own words from the article in the link:
"...There's no question whatsoever that we could not have done what we did back then if I hadn't had my airplanes..." - and that was during the 60's and 70's -I mention this just to illustrate the point that it isn't important that GM should be reduced to the inefficiency of travelling commercial, but they NEED to demonstrate shared sacrifice.

And no FP115, I don't think doing without the bonus cuts it. Did you know that GM workers have not received merit raises for two years, have lost access to 401k matching, and tuition reimbursement? Managers and Execs are still driving company cars with the fuel, insurance, and maintainence paid for...

[fp115]

Originally Posted by blkwrxsti

You could take Sam Walton's word for it:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...6578/index.htm

Very powerful stuff, when the CEO of your company says he shares a hotel room with other execs, stays at the Holiday Inn, and eats at family restaurants because :

"Every time Wal-Mart spends one dollar foolishly, it comes right out of our customers' pockets. Every time we save them a dollar, that puts us one more step ahead of the competition -- where we always plan to be."

It makes everyone in the company less upset about the sacrifices they're making, about the fact that they might lose their jobs next month...

I've been arguing for a week that a private jet saves a CEO enough time/wait/and paperwork that it's worthwhile.

But that's not the issue here - Rick couldn't come up with a single sacrifice that HE's personally made due to the downturn in GM's fortunes. He couldn't shut one grandstanding Senator up during the middle of a negotiation. I'd expect more from a good CEO. What's worse, that grandstanding Senator, who was complicit in the "financial bailout" debacle, ends up looking like the smart one... Thank god those guys had the good sense to save us from the credit crunch. I wish they'd sent Lutz to the hearing - that would have been fun.

Well here's one, Rick and the other execs are getting no bonus this year.