GM to return two leased jets amid criticism

[triadecho]

Originally Posted by sigma

That was a long long time before airport security. It could not and would not be allowed to happen today.

Very true and sadly true. It shows you the progress society has made.

[drew770]

Originally Posted by joemac

It's a joke that this is an issue at all.

It's a cost issue. At the rate of pay for a CEO, idle time costs money. You can either pay for more efficient time use (private jet). Or you can waste time, sitting at an airport, delays, etc.

At the per hour rate of most CEO's it's a better cost effective use of time to use the private jet.

We could say the same to ourselves. Why do we fly instead of drive? Time efficiency. Time is money. What's one's time worth. That's the key.

If I'm a business owner I want my people to be working with minimal idle time, best effective, efficient use of their time. The overhead getting on a plane today commercially is extreme often taking longer to get on the plane than the flight itself.

Taking a first class flight with some airlines you fly through security and then you sit in a comfortable louge with wi/fi, phones, television, showers, food & drink!!

So Ricky Boy could have flown first class and still got work done.

This idea that he would waste time taking public transportation is silly. Hell, he has been sitting in Detroit for years and stuff is in shambles. So a few hours on a plane getting waited on wouldn't going to hurt him or GM.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by 1487

There are 10 major automakers in the world and two of them put money into hybrids. Out of those two, one made a real commitment to hybrids and rolled out multiple models. A few years ago Carlos Ghosn said hybrids were a fad and werent going to take off. Now he is promising electric cars in 2010. A lot of folks (including European automakers) were skeptical about hybrids. Also, if you think Toyotas profits are from hybrids you are delusional. Their profits are from SUVs, pickups and luxury cars.

I don't think that Toyota makes any money on hybrids... at best they break even... probably lose... You sound like another potential employee for GM Finance. The business case for hybrids makes little sense (both selling and buying)... But they make HUGE marketing and corporate image sense.

Ask "Joe six pack" which manufacture "gets it", "is looking to tomorrow", "has efficient cars", "is green" and you will get 90% Toyota, 9% Honda... and everyone else sharing the last 1%.

Ask who makes great trucks and you get 55% GM 45% Ford...

Carlos was wrong about hybrids, he was wrong about trucks, he was wrong about small cars and he will be wrong in the future.

BTW the auto maker who sunk coin into hybrids made enough PROFIT last year to buy GM 3 times over.

Right now Toyota has great "image" GM has the image that they are on the verge of going broke...

[steined]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

It is against most major companies regulations that no more than 1 person in a C-level position can be on the same flight at any given time because if the plane were to crash and Wagoner and Lutz were both on the plane, there would be a power vacuum at the top of GM.

Not a good thing.

That was tongue-in-cheek... firmly

[Joe in T.O.]

Something tells me those "irate lawmakers" drive Toyotas. They have no problem dishing out money to banks but they don't want domestics to make it through these tough times.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

I don't think that Toyota makes any money on hybrids... at best they break even... probably lose... You sound like another potential employee for GM Finance. The business case for hybrids makes little sense (both selling and buying)... But they make HUGE marketing and corporate image sense.

Ask "Joe six pack" which manufacture "gets it", "is looking to tomorrow", "has efficient cars", "is green" and you will get 90% Toyota, 9% Honda... and everyone else sharing the last 1%.

Ask who makes great trucks and you get 55% GM 45% Ford...

Carlos was wrong about hybrids, he was wrong about trucks, he was wrong about small cars and he will be wrong in the future.

BTW the auto maker who sunk coin into hybrids made enough PROFIT last year to buy GM 3 times over.

Right now Toyota has great "image" GM has the image that they are on the verge of going broke...

I think thats what 1487 meant. Most know that hybrids don't make money aren't efficient, they are just an image booster. I do believe that at some point the Prius did become profitable but the raise of material costs has reversed that.

[Aveyello]

Bob Lutz should fly the execs and Badfinger to D.C. in his helicopter.

[doh]

Ford is exploring the sale of its corporate jets

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081121/ford_...jets.html?.v=1

Ford, criticized for corporate jet travel while seeking bailout, considers selling its fleet


DETROIT (AP) -- Ford Motor Co. Says it is exploring the possible sale of its five corporate jets.
The CEOs of all three Detroit automakers were criticized this week by members of Congress for flying to Washington in separate corporate jets to seek a $25 billion bailout.

Ford said in a statement Friday that it is exploring options for its five jets. The company says it has sold four planes since 2005.

[applepie]

Security is a legitimate concern but who here really believes an auto exec is going to be kidnapped at the airport of all places.

What about when these execs travel for pleasure with their families- do they take the corporate jet for that too?

[03xtreme]

Originally Posted by applepie

Security is a legitimate concern but who here really believes an auto exec is going to be kidnapped at the airport of all places.

What about when these execs travel for pleasure with their families- do they take the corporate jet for that too?

yeah and somebody is going to jack up (pick any senator or house rep) either and we pay for that DIRECTLY.

it's so easy to buy into the media hype because they fist feed it to you 24/7.

If i got on tv and told you x,y, and z long enough would you believe it?

yes.... because you'd have to do MORE work to go beyond face value, that is not the american way. easy information turns into facts every day between 6pm and 6:30pm and 24/7 online or on CNBC/pick a cable new station.

remember, the media is second hand by the time it gets to you and it's an interpretation or analysis.

[ne_one]

Originally Posted by motorman

why does the head of GM need to be protected from the pubic.

I guess I read the requirement incorrectly. I thought it was a matter of security, not body part.

[Bolex]

..i still think these guys are idiots. GM's been begging for money from the Govt. for the last month or so, so they put themselves on the headlines, not the media.

these CEO's know that this issue is making headline news, they should also know that ALOT of people are against the US auto. i mean c'mon, its no secret that Domestics still have "those gas guzzling pieces of crap" reputation. a reputation GM gave themselves in the last 25 yrs or so.

so with that in mind, the bad reputation attached to US auto, they could have been a little more discreet, they knew it was gonna be on CNN...

if the media distorted reality i wish GM,Ford, or Chrysler could have issued a response..but the only response i saw was that theyre now selling the planes? c'mon that says, im guilty.

[sooch]

If they dump ALL their jets they will have the money that they are asking the tax payers for. Cut RIR pay and there you go. Every one seems to have NO problem cutting the working guys salary and laying them off and bad mouthing the union. When it comes to the executives they make excuses.

[04bonnie]

Originally Posted by joemac

It's a joke that this is an issue at all.

It's a cost issue. At the rate of pay for a CEO, idle time costs money. You can either pay for more efficient time use (private jet). Or you can waste time, sitting at an airport, delays, etc.

At the per hour rate of most CEO's it's a better cost effective use of time to use the private jet.

We could say the same to ourselves. Why do we fly instead of drive? Time efficiency. Time is money. What's one's time worth. That's the key.

If I'm a business owner I want my people to be working with minimal idle time, best effective, efficient use of their time. The overhead getting on a plane today commercially is extreme often taking longer to get on the plane than the flight itself.

Very well said! I think it's a little over the top with private jets, but like you said...time is money. However, when I heard about this news when if first happened, I was thinking (like Homer Simpson "DOH"!) It was kind of like when I heard what McCain's campaign dollars were paying Palin's hair stylist for her hair and make-up during the campain. Eventhough I'm a Republican, it kind of made me sick, and made me think "DOH" again, like OOPS, that's not good for the campaign

[fp115]

Originally Posted by applepie

Security is a legitimate concern but who here really believes an auto exec is going to be kidnapped at the airport of all places.

What about when these execs travel for pleasure with their families- do they take the corporate jet for that too?

My brother was hospitalized for riding in public transportation... Auto execs and their families are at risk, no matter what you would think.