GM Ready for Smaller Engines When Customers Are

[jzEllis]

Originally Posted by Chaz_23

No #$%@. Who the hell is going to want an anemic engine in the CTS. What's next, a 3-cylinder in a Suburban? The trick, Tommy-boy, is to put small engines in small affordable cars. How about readying those, huh?
This is of course a farse by GM to "prove" that no one wants small engines. "Hey look, we're doing all we can: offering tiny engines in the CTS, Camaro, etc. and no one's buying them, therefore we'll stop production of all 4-cylinder engines."

EXACTLY! i for one could care less if the camaro got good gas milage, seriously, it's a sports car! economy would be nice, but the fact that i'm considering a purchase as impractical as a sports coupe kinda negates the fuel economy aspect...to a point.

no, when it comes to CHEAP, AFFORDABLE cars. GM needs to get on it! they have to offer fuel efficient fun and comparably powerful n/a and FI engines in small-midsize vehicles with desirable looks and decent handling and overall performance. THAT IS WHAT GM LACKS. v8s are not the issue. most of GM's V8s get gas mileage as good or better than most much smaller v6s.

they need to stop decontenting premium vehicles in pursuit of customers who can't afford them anyway and offer affordable small CHEAP cars that are DESIRABLE.

[peterj2706]

He's blowing smoke. If they had them, they'd be on the lots.

As far as worring about customer acceptance, has anyone here driven a VW/Audi 2.0T? Fantastic, never believe its a four, tons of torque and power right from throttle tip in all the way to red line, smooth and quiet, all 200hp. I assume the Saab 4 is the same way. And look at the transmissions others are putting out there, GM can't even get the 6 speeds going, never mind the DSGs and CVTs, etc.

Come on GM, give us a break, deliver the product. No more excuses, deliver the cars, or close the doors.

[blkwrxsti]

How is it that Tom is still the Oracle of wisdom at GM Powertrain - isn't this the same guy that's been trying to convince us for the past 15 years that customers can't really tell the difference between pushrods and OHC? How come they can't downsize this guy and get a leader with some vision?

His CTS example is laughable - Acura TSX's, Audi A4s and A6s, not to mention turbo volvos and Saabs have already proven that the market CAN accept a 4 cylinder luxury car. So here's Tom, 5 years or more after competitors have already done their market tests, had cars in production, and won hundreds of thousands of loyal customers: This strategic thinker has nothing more to say than "4 cylinders might be a little too rough and noisy for a luxury car". Duh? Thanks Tom, where would we be without your insightful grasp of the automotive landscape? Where were you 10 years ago, when spy photographers were talking about the new turbo engines going in Audi's and Saabs, when Acura was planning their 4 cylinder TSX? Shouldn't you have held your hand up at some meeting and said - "you know, we could make our 260 hp ecotec a little quieter, so we can go play with the big boys...

GM seems to like playing it safe by making sure there's plenty of buyers for all its cars. They used to be a full line manufacturer. You'd think with 8 brands or whatever, some of those could actually sell a 4 cylinder luxury car without cheapening the Cadillac name. Maybe one could actually sell a minivan, or an AWD sport sedan, or an AWD hatchback, or a small fuel efficient car that nobody thinks would sell in the US. Hell, I don't even care if they take some Suzukis and slap the GM chiclet on them and peddle them as Pontiac Tron-cycles. They're supposedly a global company now and all we get is 5 versions of the same car, while hyundai is coming out with a supersedan that they sell right next to the Accent.

I also think his example gets away from the main problem - Honda and Toyota have made billions selling very fuel efficient cars to people who are willing to give up speed, space, comfort, and utility in exchange for fuel economy. GM is trying to sell about a 1000 Tahoes to people who were told GM invented a free lunch. Who do you think is going to be more passionate about their cars? GM needs to realize that their cars are not at the center of the market, especially since the market has shifted decidedly smaller over the past 5 years. They need to stop pretending that most people need the largish, heavyish cars that they are selling, even in the few segments they still participate in.

[sigma]

Here's the signal that GM has been waiting for...

[motorman]

Originally Posted by windvale

And that's the PROBLEM ! People don't think of Chevy when they think of fuel efficient cars. The people that want a fuel efficient 4 cyl. don't even think of Chevy.

I needed to buy a fuel efficient commuter car two weeks ago. I pretty much just shopped Honda and Toyota. The Aveo is an inferior product.

I bought the Fit. It's a wonderful little car. GM has nothing, NOTHING that even comes close, and so I never even bothered visiting a Chevy dealership. When I want a new truck I'll shop Chevy.

i just came back from a 700 mile road trip with my 2008 430 HP corvette and it averaged 24 MPG. this is including open road and city driving. if it got 30 MPG how much would it have save me ??? $24. if you think it is not worth $24 to drive a corvette vs driving some little s--t box you have never driven a corvette. if fuel was hard to get and there was gas lines like i lived thru in the 70s it may be a different story. wait till both the state and federal govt raise the gasoline tax,the feds are talking about it already because people are using less gasoline and they need the money,you are never going to win.

[obriend]

Originally Posted by motorman

i just came back from a 700 mile road trip with my 2008 430 HP corvette and it averaged 24 MPG. this is including open road and city driving. if it got 30 MPG how much would it have save me ??? $24. if you think it is not worth $24 to drive a corvette vs driving some little s--t box you have never driven a corvette. if fuel was hard to get and there was gas lines like i lived thru in the 70s it may be a different story. wait till both the state and federal govt raise the gasoline tax,the feds are talking about it already because people are using less gasoline and they need the money,you are never going to win.

What exactly is your point? That you drive a Corvette? Big f---ing deal.

His point what that GM doesn't offer a competitive, CHEAP, ECONOMY car. No one ever said that GM didn't build relatively fuel-efficient EXPENSIVE cars (Corvette, pickups, Tahoes are all relatively fuel efficient for their class). But GM can't survive making 30,000 Corvettes a year.

Plus, I would never call a Honda a s--t box. The Fit is a fun little car for the money (1/3 the cost of your Vette). For the past 20 years, Honda's have been much nicer than anything GM could come up with at the same price. Hell, my wife's 95 Civic was nicer and a much better ride than my 2000 Grand Am.

[63GrandSport001]

GM just shut your doors now because all you are doing now is just making yourself look retarded.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by obriend

What exactly is your point? That you drive a Corvette? Big f---ing deal.

His point what that GM doesn't offer a competitive, CHEAP, ECONOMY car. No one ever said that GM didn't build relatively fuel-efficient EXPENSIVE cars (Corvette, pickups, Tahoes are all relatively fuel efficient for their class). But GM can't survive making 30,000 Corvettes a year.

Plus, I would never call a Honda a s--t box. The Fit is a fun little car for the money (1/3 the cost of your Vette). For the past 20 years, Honda's have been much nicer than anything GM could come up with at the same price. Hell, my wife's 95 Civic was nicer and a much better ride than my 2000 Grand Am.

the point is there is not enought people out there that are ready to buy another new car just to get a few more MPG. you have to do the math to find out how many miles you have to drive to break even if you trade in a paid for car and get back into payments. you have to do what the math tells you not what your heart tells you. my silverado is 20 years old and get 14 MPG and a new silverado will get me 20 MPG but how long will i have to drive it to break even at the cost of $30 K ??? i can buy a lot of gasoline for $30 K even $15K what a small 4 cylinder costs.

[tgagneguam]

Did Chrysler wait for consumers to tell them that they were ready for the minivan? Did Ford wait till customers suggested that a more aerodynamic design that came about with the segment-busting Taurus was what they wanted? Did Ford wait till customers told it they wanted a mid-sized sport utility, thus ushering in the multi-billion dollar former profit machine, the Explorer? Did Lexus wait till customers said that they were ready for a Japanese luxury brand?

I'm trying to remember why these people earn the money that I'm sure they earn. Christ, almighty, what exactly doesn't GM get here?! Isn't GM allegedly changing its ways and looking globally when designing vehicles? Don't many consumers in other nations prefer smaller displacement engines in their cars, even in luxury machines? Shouldn't a global Cadillac already be motivated by a mere four cylinders?

[Koasterking]

We could use, or could've used, the Corsa that's shown behind him.

[motorman]

$3500

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

Did Chrysler wait for consumers to tell them that they were ready for the minivan? Did Ford wait till customers suggested that a more aerodynamic design that came about with the segment-busting Taurus was what they wanted? Did Ford wait till customers told it they wanted a mid-sized sport utility, thus ushering in the multi-billion dollar former profit machine, the Explorer? Did Lexus wait till customers said that they were ready for a Japanese luxury brand?

I'm trying to remember why these people earn the money that I'm sure they earn. Christ, almighty, what exactly doesn't GM get here?! Isn't GM allegedly changing its ways and looking globally when designing vehicles? Don't many consumers in other nations prefer smaller displacement engines in their cars, even in luxury machines? Shouldn't a global Cadillac already be motivated by a mere four cylinders?

what happens if the price of gasoline keeps falling ?? do you think a lot of people in the US will still be in the market for a small 4 cylinder s--t shaker,i don't think so. gas will be $3.50 by labor day and that will be in line with what it should be if you figure in inflation for the last 30 years. gasoline did not go up with everything else so when it did go up all at once people panicked. $3500 cars now cost $35,000 so $.35 a gallon gas should now cost $3.50

[sigma]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

Did Chrysler wait for consumers to tell them that they were ready for the minivan? Did Ford wait till customers suggested that a more aerodynamic design that came about with the segment-busting Taurus was what they wanted? Did Ford wait till customers told it they wanted a mid-sized sport utility, thus ushering in the multi-billion dollar former profit machine, the Explorer? Did Lexus wait till customers said that they were ready for a Japanese luxury brand?

Preach it brother.

[motorman]

car buyers make no sense as i remember people paying extra the get a VW bug when gas was $.30 a gallon. some people just want to make a statement like $25K prius buyers because the saving in fuel cost over a $12K regular 4 cylinder car will take years to even out.

[E. Haskell]

Does Honda have smaller engines??? From what I can tell, the displacement of Honda's engines are about the same as GM's.

[Rocket 88]

July 31, 2008


Dear General Motors Corporation,

I just wanted to take a moment of your time and let you know that I am ready for smaller engines in my future GM vehicles.

Of course, I'm not sure exactly what I will be buying to replace my current GM vehicle (a 2006 Saturn Vue) so I can not give you exact information on which GM model you should put the smaller engines into. I was thinking it would be wonderful if you gave consumers a choice of engines on most models. In fact, I think you already do this with a lot of your products. Hey, maybe this could be as simple as replacing your current small engine offering with a smaller displacement higher tech engine. Consumer love hi tech stuff like turbos, direct injection and Variable Valve Timing.... even if most of us don't know what it is these things do.


Sincerely,

Joe Consumer