GM pushes new line of 'cross-dressing vans'

[PontiacJ8]

Minivans take on SUV attributes to boost sales
Wednesday, October 13, 2004
By Ed Garsten / The Detroit News

BAY HARBOR- General Motors Corp. calls its new line of minivans "crossover sport vans," but a more apt description might be "cross-dressing vans."
The Saturn Relay and Buick Terraza, along with the Chevrolet Uplander and Pontiac Montana SV6, soon to reach showrooms, are GM's latest attempt to conquer the minivan market.

The No. 1 automaker has been a perennial also-ran in the segment.

The company's first entries-the boxy Chevrolet Astro and GMC Safari of the 1980s-are now built in small volumes primarily for commercial customers.

The so-called "Dustbuster" minivans of the 1990s-Chevrolet Lumina, Oldsmobile Silhouette and Pontiac Trans Sport- drew derision for their long, pointed front ends resembling the shape of the hand-held vacuum cleaner sold by Black & Decker.

And the outgoing Pontiac Montana and Chevrolet Venture minivans have been overshadowed by market leaders Dodge Caravan, Toyota Sienna and Honda Odyssey.

This time around, GM is dressing its minivans in sport utility vehicle clothing by popping off the sloped nose and popping on a more SUV-like horizontal front end, along with 17-inch wheels.

But analyst Jim Hall at auto research firm AutoPacific Inc. said no matter what handle GM hangs on its new vehicles, they will still be minivans.

"They're not fooling anybody into thinking they're buying SUVs, that's for sure," Hall said. "They still have too many hard buttons they push that are minivan buttons and flattening the hood out doesn't change that. It doesn't mean they're bad, but they're not what they think they're going to be."

All the new models will have the requisite minivan sliding doors, seating for seven, a plethora of cup holders and storage compartments and more refined interiors. While the second and third row seats will fold flat, they will not collapse all the way into the floor a la Chrysler's new minivans.

The Relay and Terraza are available in front or all-wheel drive powered by a standard 200 horsepower, 3.5 liter, V-6 engine. Traction control and Stabilitrak, a vehicle stability enhancement system, will be standard on all front-wheel-drive Terrazas.

Full Story HERE

[JBsZ06]

Looks like a minivan to me too..

GM is on drugs thinking people will beleive its anything else.

JMO

[ByTheLake]

Originally Posted by JBsZ06

Looks like a minivan to me too..

GM is on drugs thinking people will beleive its anything else.

JMO

Not only that, they look like OLD minivans, especially from the profile.

It will be interesting to see if the 'CSV' tweaks will do anything to GM minivan sales, but hopefully we will see a new platform down the road.

I saw a Buick Terazza on the road yesterday, so I know they are out there.

[Ming]

I'd like to see the press put this kind of scrutiny and cynicism towards the Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander, that aren't that far from being minivans either.

[zaxxis]

Originally Posted by Ming

I'd like to see the press put this kind of scrutiny and cynicism towards the Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander, that aren't that far from being minivans either.

While that is true, they clearly do not look like the typical minivan. GM's CSVs scream minivan with a dose of 'ugly'.

The difference is that while Toyota and Honda received criticism for their early generation minivans, they worked hard to improve them into quality, class leading vehicles.

GM, receiving the same and criticism decided to mail it in and sell by increasing the spin.

-Z

[tgagneguam]

Originally Posted by zaxxis

...The difference is that while Toyota and Honda received criticism for their early generation minivans, they worked hard to improve them into quality, class leading vehicles.

GM, receiving the same and criticism decided to mail it in and sell by increasing the spin.
-Z

Yes. It's funny that GM executives tout these vehicles as CSV's. Lutz did not at all sound convicted when he described them as such during their earlier introduction this year on the autoshow circuit. The press didn't buy it, auto aficionados didn't buy it, the dealers didn't buy it, and most importantly, I predict consumers won't buy it. It will take a heavy dose of something to move the nearly 250,000 units Doraville is capable of building each year, 4 versions notwithstandiing.

I pray that this old-school approach to building vehicles - not putting much thought or effort into redesigning average vehicles but paying a whole lot of lip service to how good they are - dies soon at GM. It's a really tired strategy. And it doesn't work. Isn't that what they were supposed to learn from Zarella's foibles?

[dindak]

I think these VANS are fine as a stop gap until all new vans arive but why GM is spending tons of cash rebranding them and calling them CSVs, I have no idea. The Saturn one is not a good idea making Saturn less different now. I saw a Terazza the other day and it's pretty nice and upsacle in look.

They should hold market share, nothing else. For the buck they offer a lot of value with standard MP3, On Star, ABS/discs, decent interior and DVD systems. I hope GM has some all new vans sooner rather than later if they want to build share.

[jckjds]

I've never quite understood all of the animosity toward the new vans. They are a stopgap measure, that much is clear. They use the same platforms and share sheetmetal with the old vans from the A pillar back. However, the new interiors are fantastic. the fact that the seats don't fold into the floor doesn't bother me, becuase it means that the floor is not jacked up to accommodate the underfloor space required to stow the seats away (cough . . . Chrysler). The seats do fold flat, creating efficient storage space, which is what people really want.

Okay, so the nose treatment is controversial and the SUV spin is clearly not fooling anyone, but is that a reason to hate the van? If we are to criticize, then think of a real reason to dislike the van. I, for one, wish GM would hurry up with Lambda and get a real competitor on the market, but as far as minivans go, this one will suffice. Plus, the price is right.

[ponchoman49]

These poor vans were doomed from the start in my eyes. With Dodge, Toyota, Honda, Nissan and even Kia receiving hudos for there vans for innovative features, high quality or even just a fair price, GM had a large shoe to fill just to stay competitive. Knowing this and what came out as a result of this is baffling. Creating the Buick version was predictable with the flushing of Olds down the toilet, but giving Saturn a clone is a real head scratcher. Even more amazing is the comonality of shared parts. Engines, seats, dashboards, steering wheels, guage clusters, tire sizes, one size bodystyle etc. Other than some chrome trim and grilles there is so little to choose from. If I were GM I would have at least done the following:
1) Not made a Saturn version
2) Given Buick a more refined front end, and optional 3.6 like the Rendevous has, a Buick steering wheel and other Buick indentifying cues.
3) Kept the name Venture for the Chevy. Why does the Chevy need 17" tires standard. Why does it need a standard entertainment system? Why does it have a Grand prix steering wheel? Why is there no short length model on this lowest rung version, with 15" tires, no rear air, no rear entertainment system, for a starting price of $19995 to compete with Kia Sedona and Dodge shortie Caravan? Once again GM is shoveling this crap down our throats whether we want it or not.
4) Montana SV6! That sounds like a new droid on Star Wars. The Pontiac version looks best and is the only one to get away with a Grand Prix steering wheel in my opinion. Being the sport version of the bunch I would like to see the 3900 find it's way as either an option or part of a sport package.

This isn't rocket science and I would have thought GM could have done a more convincing job with these new 05 vans.

[gmsickofan]

The Montana SV6 is the only good looking one, I think. But I would like a lower price too, since it isn't an all new design.

[Buick61]

Originally Posted by jckjds

I've never quite understood all of the animosity toward the new vans. They are a stopgap measure, that much is clear.

Originally Posted by dindak

I think these VANS are fine as a stop gap until all new vans arive

Geez, people. Who says to their wife/husband, "Gosh Honey, get out the checkbook, I want to buy one of those new Stop Gaps! Sure, better products are eventually coming from GM, but let's not waste time looking at better competitors, since these vans are just fine at being Stop Gaps!"

If GM didn't put the effort into making world class vans, why should the buying public put the effort into buying one?

And 4 brands getting the same thing isn't helping. Put that money into making 1 or 2 outstanding vans instead of doing nose jobs on 4 mediocre vehicles.

[gmsickofan]

Geez, people. Who says to their wife/husband, "Gosh Honey, get out the checkbook, I want to buy one of those new Stop Gaps!

I like one of the CSVs but I have to admit that is pretty darn funny, and kinda sad at the same time.

[mbukukanyau]

I would buy the Buick. The interior material Quality is just Gorgeous. I do not think there is a Minivan with that sort of interior out there.


Any Security Mum would be happy in this environment. Especially because it is uniquely American. All they need is Navigation. Unfortunately for American manufacturers, they have been slow in embracing the navigation technology. They have dropped the ball.
But its true, No one is buying the MUV ('Mininvan Utility Vehicle) ***** spin

[MelvinJ]

Originally Posted by jckjds

I've never quite understood all of the animosity toward the new vans. They are a stopgap measure, that much is clear. They use the same platforms and share sheetmetal with the old vans from the A pillar back. However, the new interiors are fantastic. the fact that the seats don't fold into the floor doesn't bother me, becuase it means that the floor is not jacked up to accommodate the underfloor space required to stow the seats away (cough . . . Chrysler). The seats do fold flat, creating efficient storage space, which is what people really want.

Okay, so the nose treatment is controversial and the SUV spin is clearly not fooling anyone, but is that a reason to hate the van? If we are to criticize, then think of a real reason to dislike the van. I, for one, wish GM would hurry up with Lambda and get a real competitor on the market, but as far as minivans go, this one will suffice. Plus, the price is right.

This is how I look at it too. If GM had spent the money for a clean sheet new design and came up with this it would be tragic, but as a minor refresh to bide time, it's OK. I really don't think they expect to take the market by storm.

The Buick version takes the place of the Silhouette, which wasn't all that differentiated from the the Chevy and Pontiac either. As for the Saturn, I don't have a strong opinion on that one way or the other. I'd rather see them try something like the Zafira just to present an alternative, but there would be no way to manufacture it in NA, and who knows what it would take to certify it here.

[umina]

Boy, i know its not a GTO or other high performance V8 but gimme a freekin break, its a VAN! Does anyone here actually purport to drive a van? (crickets chirping...) My wife and I have a Montana now, and love it! The price can't be beat, and neither can the options we got (bought used) for the money. THis is why GM vehicles will never be outdone by foreign crap, even if it is better. Yes, in an idealized way, we'd like to think GM should be making world class vehicles, but then we'd all be driving little foreign crap cans cause it'd be all we could afford while we "dreamed" of owning a big fancy Domestic vehicle someday. The pure and simple fact is, most people drive what they can afford and want what they can't. If I could afford a porche, you bet your back side I'd be driving one, but if all I can afford is a used Cobalt or G6, thats what i'm gonna get and i'm gonna be happy about it.
GM and other domestic vehicles are the BEST USED vehicle value around, thats why they will never go under. I purchase cars at auction and sell them independantly, and GM vehicles get me (and the customer) the best bang for the buck, and they make great used cars because most of their problems were dealt with/fixed by the original owner. I can't wait to see these CSV's on the auction lot in a year or so because I can pick them up for a good price and make money on it too. Unlike buying foreign and making very little margin. Lets think for once or twice about the common owner of one of these vehicles before we go ripping them apart.
Thats my rant and I'm sticking to it....