GM Price Too High For Spring Hill

[TJ95GAGT]

Originally Posted by Stovebolt

No, it isn't. Taxpayer money is always taxpayer money. Unless it's freely given for a service rendered, it's held in trust by the government for the public good. It is NOT "their" money, no more than a thief stealing from you makes it "his." I EARN my employer's wages. The government has not earned that money. It's a simple distinction. Not to mention, if that employer no longer wishes to pay me, he can fire me. I cannot fire my government, as much as I'd like to.

Oh, and it's also rotten, borderline treasonous Michigan Democrats who decided they could freeload off of the D3 for several decades and strangled the economy through high taxes and regulation.

The road your drive on, the school children go to, the police/fire fighters that respond, welfare, the security of America,etc. - all services. Security of America includes financial aswell, care to guess where the unemployement rate would be if GM was to go bye bye?

You have choices and can fire the government, move to another country. You always have choices.

And if you think you pay alot of taxes now, take a look back at historical tax rates.

Originally Posted by RamJet502

Its OUR money, not the Governments! The Government is supposed to be representative of the people, not an independent entity.

Like it or not they are elected officials so you can complain about it. Sometimes they may not make a popular choice BUT hopefully they are making the choices right the US/State/County they represent, even at the displeasure of some. I don't think I'd like to see what would have been if the government didn't step in and help the banks and GM.

[msitter]

I have no problem with the states giving tax incentives and land deals along with training and employment services to attract new industries. I am sure GM could have gotten the same deal VW got to move to TN. They, however, decided to try to extort up front money from them and I can see in this economy how any state would be reluctant to write a check for $250 million on the hopes the new arrival would be a success. GM of anyone except for Chrysler do not have a good track record in that respect. Besides TN already paid for Spring Hill once. What do they say,"fool me once, fool me twice".
Get the picture. For once an elected official did the public right.

[Gm_Tooler]

Originally Posted by rsbaker

Volkswagen is getting a total of about $500,000,000 in tax abatement free land & training and infrastructure improvements to build in Tennessee. I don't know why GM can't get what its asking for.

GM/SH got all the goodies from TN when they were a greenfield site. And more when they retooled for the Traverse. And also an offer of more to bring in the b/c cars. I can't see where VW was given an advantage. They just happened to strike a deal when the economy was in better shape.

The more I read on this, I think GM was planning on Orion the whole time. By creating a bidding war they made downtrodden MI feel like lottery winners. Only they had to pay for the prize.

[RamJet502]

Originally Posted by TJ95GAGT

Like it or not they are elected officials so you can complain about it. Sometimes they may not make a popular choice BUT hopefully they are making the choices right the US/State/County they represent, even at the displeasure of some. I don't think I'd like to see what would have been if the government didn't step in and help the banks and GM.

I'm glad you have so much faith in a group of people only concerned with lining their own pockets and winning re-elections. If you think I'm overstating the situation; I'll point out the rampant lobbying (legalized bribery) and pork-barrel spending (nothing more than quid pro quo for the people who helped them buy their election). The corruption is systemic in both parties and none of them deserve a dime of OUR money.

[stormwatcher]

Originally Posted by 1G6

You mean the rotten, borderline treasonous politics played by the southern Republicans?

They should grind that plant to dust and scatter the mess on Corker's yard.

Oh stuff it. The Detroit automakers cooked their own goose. Southern Republicans never caused the problems. I know you think taxpayers owe automakers a living in perpetuity but you should be grateful for the generosity taxpayers have been forced to commit to.

[stormwatcher]

Originally Posted by K-1

Once the money has been paid to the gov't, it is no longer "taxpayer money," it's the gov't's money. Would you like it if your employer told you how to spend your wages?

"Government money"?? There is no such thing. Governments only exist by taxing the productive economic activity of taxpayers.

Or borrowing from the Chinese.

[gardnet1]

Originally Posted by DC12MANY

You mean 'Senator Millionaires'(forbes 2006) $1.7 million place, where they wined and dined the VW execs to consumate the $600 million give away? Ohh don't get me started.

So Sen. Corker EARNED his money as a small business man and that's a bad thing? 90% of the career lawyer polititions in dc, earned their money via lobbyists bribes.

Sen. Corker's plan was the right plan for everyone and wouldn't have screwed over bondholders. Good Luck GM getting any future bondholders to prop you up; you've already soiled them drawers!

Now the question is Spring Hill part of "Good GM" or "Bad GM"? If they are Good GM, they will get future Lambda work, count on it. If not, then the Government will sell Spring Hill plant to VW/Audi (looking for a second plant) or hyundia for pennies on the dollar.

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

That's really too bad, until GM gets out of Detroit the culture of mediocrity will continue. The attempted extortion of non-union states seems idiotic, GM should be wining and dining Tennessee and Wisconsin.

Please do elaborate on both points.

[RamJet502]

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

Please do elaborate on both points.

Detroit is the problem, stuck in the past with powerful obsolete unions.

(I'm not including the Red Wings in Detroit's mediocrity)

[Gm_Tooler]

Originally Posted by gardnet1

So Sen. Corker EARNED his money as a small business man and that's a bad thing? 90% of the career lawyer polititions in dc, earned their money via lobbyists bribes.

Sen. Corker's plan was the right plan for everyone and wouldn't have screwed over bondholders. Good Luck GM getting any future bondholders to prop you up; you've already soiled them drawers!

Now the question is Spring Hill part of "Good GM" or "Bad GM"? If they are Good GM, they will get future Lambda work, count on it. If not, then the Government will sell Spring Hill plant to VW/Audi (looking for a second plant) or hyundia for pennies on the dollar.

Did I miss something? Didn't corker want a 2/3 reduction in bondholder debt? I recall them not being too happy at the time.

Originally Posted by RamJet502

Detroit is the problem, stuck in the past with powerful obsolete unions.

(I'm not including the Red Wings in Detroit's mediocrity)

Originally Posted by RamJet502

That's really too bad, until GM gets out of Detroit the culture of mediocrity will continue. The attempted extortion of non-union states seems idiotic, GM should be wining and dining Tennessee and Wisconsin.

There were still unions in WI and TN last time I checked. Staying stuck in the past with a mediocre mindset can be a problem too.

[MR_KEMO]

Originally Posted by Gm_Tooler

GM/SH got all the goodies from TN when they were a greenfield site. And more when they retooled for the Traverse. And also an offer of more to bring in the b/c cars. I can't see where VW was given an advantage. They just happened to strike a deal when the economy was in better shape.

The more I read on this, I think GM was planning on Orion the whole time. By creating a bidding war they made downtrodden MI feel like lottery winners. Only they had to pay for the prize.

My thinking also. I believe GM planned to keep the small car in Mich. from the beginning. They just hoped to start a bidding war between the desperate states needing employment . It was a win win deal for GM EITHER WAY !!

[SCCA1995]

Originally Posted by 1G6

You mean the rotten, borderline treasonous politics played by the southern Republicans?

They should grind that plant to dust and scatter the mess on Corker's yard.

Corker had nothing to do with the extortion by GM.

Originally Posted by DC12MANY

You mean 'Senator Millionaires'(forbes 2006) $1.7 million place, where they wined and dined the VW execs to consumate the $600 million give away? Ohh don't get me started.

Originally Posted by rsbaker

Volkswagen is getting a total of about $500,000,000 in tax abatement free land & training and infrastructure improvements to build in Tennessee. I don't know why GM can't get what its asking for.

Do either of you have links to support your claim of $500-600M that was "given away" by the state government of TN? I'll do you 1 better. I have 2 links. One mentions the wining & dining at Corker's home, but both mention that VW will be "investing ~$1B into the local economy".
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2...lant-decision/
http://www.chattanoogachamber.com/en...mationPage.asp

Originally Posted by rsbaker

Pardon my French but that's B*** S***. Volkswagen has no monopoly on virtue. They will build in whichever state writes the biggest check. I'll stick to my original statement. Tennessee should cough up just as much money for GM as they did for VW.

OK, when you get elected to a high ranking political office, let's see you pull $200M out of your a**. Should taxpayers just go along with that idea? No. GM made no mention that there would be more jobs needed to build the small car if it was awarded to SH. At least with VW coming in, people will be hired in that were previously unemployed or at lower paying or less satisfying jobs.

[Gm_Tooler]

Originally Posted by SCCA1995

...........GM made no mention that there would be more jobs needed to build the small car if it was awarded to SH. At least with VW coming in, people will be hired in that were previously unemployed or at lower paying or less satisfying jobs.

Keeping existing jobs has value and merit too. But SH would have still lost 800 or so of the best paying jobs even if they had won.

[BigC]

Originally Posted by Bokl

yea yukon and suburban are big sellers. What do they sell 1k of each of them per month. Yea it is a high volume vehicle. Those truck and suv's have been loosing sales since 2003 look at the difference in sales of silverado and camry it is almost 1 to 1 few years ago it was 7 to 1. And there are a lot more mid size cars then trucks. So Americans are running away from big vehicles.

I disagree. Camry sales have rose at mostly the expense of other car models(Ford Taurus anyone), not at the expense of Silverado sales. Americans are running away from new vehicle purchases in general, not trucks in particular.

[Hunid Racks]

Of course Tennessee can't "afford it."

Nissan already stole all the money.