GM orders 100,000 Hitachi Lithium-Ion Batteries BAS+ comming soon

[goblue]

Originally Posted by johnstarnes

Thanks. Maybe you can explain something I've yet to get my mind around...how does regenerative braking work? I just don't see how mechanical/heat energy from brakes can be converted to electricity.

In a power plant, electricity is made by using some other source of energy to spin what's essentially a motor and electricity comes out the other side. If you pump electricity into the same motor, it will spin.

So, it works both ways. It's actually a lot more complicated than that, but that's it. Stop pushing electricity to an electric motor and turn the motor some other way, and electricity then flows out of the motor.

The hard part is in the calibration and controls. IE: you want a smooth regen system so the transition has to be appropriate. Also, the service brakes have to be tied in as well.

[dindak]

Chevy needs (in addition to the Volt) a solid 3 vehicle Hybrid line-up.

I would like to see a Cruze, Malibu, Tahoe and maybe even an Equinox by 2011.

[Exploder]

Uhm...the link about BAS+ is from March 2008...

[johnstarnes]

Originally Posted by goblue

In a power plant, electricity is made by using some other source of energy to spin what's essentially a motor and electricity comes out the other side. If you pump electricity into the same motor, it will spin.

So, it works both ways. It's actually a lot more complicated than that, but that's it. Stop pushing electricity to an electric motor and turn the motor some other way, and electricity then flows out of the motor.

The hard part is in the calibration and controls. IE: you want a smooth regen system so the transition has to be appropriate. Also, the service brakes have to be tied in as well.

Thanks. I am clear on the concepts involved, but even after Googling I don't understand the HOW.....I don't see how the armatures are tied in to the braking system.

[Rick_VT]

Have there been any details yet on what the new BAS+ system will be?? I hope its a very good cheap and effective alternative to the other hybrid systems out there

[civilzues]

so these batteries are for BAS+Mild Hybrid? that would be awesome in the next generation for smaller cars...

[rob2299usa]

Originally Posted by johnstarnes

Thanks. I am clear on the concepts involved, but even after Googling I don't understand the HOW.....I don't see how the armatures are tied in to the braking system.

John, the brakes on a hybrid are not mechanically tied into the hybrid system. Imagine it this way:

The braking system knows how hard you are pushing the brake pedal. The first say 25% of the pedal travel is all "electric motor braking" where energy is allow to flow into the battery pack effectively putting a load on the motor which slows the vehicle sort of like engine braking in a manual transmission vehicle. If you push the pedal any harder than 25% then you start to get friction braking in addition to the electric motor braking.

This system is actually a big reason why so many people get mixed results with hybrids mileage-wise. Many people still like to slam on the brakes at the last possible second effectively preventing the vehicle from being able to regen at all.

[johnstarnes]

Originally Posted by rob2299usa

John, the brakes on a hybrid are not mechanically tied into the hybrid system. Imagine it this way:

The braking system knows how hard you are pushing the brake pedal. The first say 25% of the pedal travel is all "electric motor braking" where energy is allow to flow into the battery pack effectively putting a load on the motor which slows the vehicle sort of like engine braking in a manual transmission vehicle. If you push the pedal any harder than 25% then you start to get friction braking in addition to the electric motor braking.

This system is actually a big reason why so many people get mixed results with hybrids mileage-wise. Many people still like to slam on the brakes at the last possible second effectively preventing the vehicle from being able to regen at all.

Sorry if I seem dense, but not seeing the forest for the trees is one of my biggest character flaws....are you saying that regenerative braking is ONLY in a car with an electric motor vs. an ICE? If so, I think the fog is beginning to clear. I can see how the armature of the motor in a Prius or Volt could act to slow the car simply by easing up on the power.....still unclear though how the braking action then directs power from that motor to the battery. Good thing I am a space case writer/gardener/botanist/artist....I'd make a lousy engineer!! thanks for the help....I love learning about things I don't understand, have since I was a young child....the inquiry is fun, but the best part is suddenly "getting it".

['Vette Dude]

Originally Posted by johnstarnes

Sorry if I seem dense, but not seeing the forest for the trees is one of my biggest character flaws....are you saying that regenerative braking is ONLY in a car with an electric motor vs. an ICE? If so, I think the fog is beginning to clear. I can see how the armature of the motor in a Prius or Volt could act to slow the car simply by easing up on the power.....still unclear though how the braking action then directs power from that motor to the battery. Good thing I am a space case writer/gardener/botanist/artist....I'd make a lousy engineer!! thanks for the help....I love learning about things I don't understand, have since I was a young child....the inquiry is fun, but the best part is suddenly "getting it".

John, read my post on the first page that I explained it.

[rob2299usa]

Originally Posted by johnstarnes

Sorry if I seem dense, but not seeing the forest for the trees is one of my biggest character flaws....are you saying that regenerative braking is ONLY in a car with an electric motor vs. an ICE? If so, I think the fog is beginning to clear. I can see how the armature of the motor in a Prius or Volt could act to slow the car simply by easing up on the power.....still unclear though how the braking action then directs power from that motor to the battery. Good thing I am a space case writer/gardener/botanist/artist....I'd make a lousy engineer!! thanks for the help....I love learning about things I don't understand, have since I was a young child....the inquiry is fun, but the best part is suddenly "getting it".

Yes regenerative braking can only be done on a vehicle with the means to store and reuse that energy (e.g. full hybrid, electric car, mild hybrid). The drive motor on a hybrid is connected to the battery pack via a power inverter and some high voltage cables. When the power flow is reversed during a brake event this puts a load on the drive motor effectively slowing the vehicle. This captures some of the momentum of the vehicle into electricity and stores it in the battery pack for later use to help propel (or in the volt's case fully propel) the vehicle. Hope that helps!

[AMERICA 123]

Well, some pretty big numbers - emphasis on 'pretty' for Hitachi.

And then you read further down....... and wonder about a few and realize - once again, that percentages without volume numbers along side are -

None of that btw, is about the GM end of it - I think ?

With an eye toward winning orders from domestic and other overseas carmakers, Hitachi will bolster capacity to meet the needs of 700,000 hybrids a year, the paper said.

Each hybrid vehicle is generally equipped with 30-50 lithium-ion batteries.

Really.

Anybody ?

See where this could be real 'interesting' in regards to 700,000 a year ?

And then ....

It has supplied batteries for a few thousand vehicles to automakers such as Isuzu Motors Ltd (7202.T) and Mitsubishi Fuso Truck & Bus Corp. (Reporting by Shailesh Kuber in Bangalore; Editing by Unnikrishnan Nair)

So..... a seventy X increase in ' production volume capacity ' to 700,000 annually means they're currently at - or were, only a 10,000 a year capacity - and what exactly is that really measuring - if that 30 -50 per unit number means anything useful ???


*******

Reuters is definitely beginning to slip.

[johnstarnes]

Originally Posted by rob2299usa

Yes regenerative braking can only be done on a vehicle with the means to store and reuse that energy (e.g. full hybrid, electric car, mild hybrid). The drive motor on a hybrid is connected to the battery pack via a power inverter and some high voltage cables. When the power flow is reversed during a brake event this puts a load on the drive motor effectively slowing the vehicle. This captures some of the momentum of the vehicle into electricity and stores it in the battery pack for later use to help propel (or in the volt's case fully propel) the vehicle. Hope that helps!

Thanks......THAT made the light bulb go off in my head! Appreciate it.

[psece]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Well, some pretty big numbers - emphasis on 'pretty' for Hitachi.

And then you read further down....... and wonder about a few and realize - once again, that percentages without volume numbers along side are -

None of that btw, is about the GM end of it - I think ?





Really.

Anybody ?

See where this could be real 'interesting' in regards to 700,000 a year ?

And then ....



So..... a seventy X increase in ' production volume capacity ' to 700,000 annually means they're currently at - or were, only a 10,000 a year capacity - and what exactly is that really measuring - if that 30 -50 per unit number means anything useful ???


*******

Reuters is definitely beginning to slip.

GM has always had great technology but didn't execute for many reasons. Wonder if some of the reasons stayed with the old GM?

As far as the Hitachi increasing production volume capacity, everything I have read is that these are standardized batteries. They can be used in everything from cars to laptops. Is there any detail to state why they think these are for vehicles only?

[Dr. Show-Me]

My understanding of the first generation of BAS was a system that basically restarted an engine that was stopped, and running accessories and ac with the engine off. I thought I read that the BAS+ would be powerful enough that it could also accelerate the car, thus increasing fuel economy in city driving while not affecting city driving economy. Some 10-15% improvement in city mileage.

['Vette Dude]

Originally Posted by Dr. Show-Me

My understanding of the first generation of BAS was a system that basically restarted an engine that was stopped, and running accessories and ac with the engine off. I thought I read that the BAS+ would be powerful enough that it could also accelerate the car, thus increasing fuel economy in city driving while not affecting city driving economy. Some 10-15% improvement in city mileage.

Correct. It can power the car alone at low speeds too. The current BAS can only power the car alone up to 2 MPH. BAS should be able to do about 10-15 MPH.