GM Looking for Volt Tax Breaks to bring Cost below $40k

[KingElvis]

Originally Posted by Ming

Let's say it turns out to be close to a $35,000 purchase. Some people will pay that just to avoid the pain at the pump. But GM will still need a dual-pronged strategy that includes affordable, stylish and efficient subcompacts --- cars that get good fuel economy and save money up front with a low purchase price. As of right now, GM does not have a good enough selection of those sorts of cars for people to head to GM dealerships in search of fuel economy and savings. Again, Toyota and Honda stand poised to take more customers from GM who are just looking for something inexpensive and fuel efficient that has a good reputation for lasting and holding its value. These potentially lost customers are not looking for an expensive miracle car -- or a low-cost Chevy subcompact that GM has invested little in updating under the hood to keep competitive. They just want to know that when they buy GM's equivalent of the Civic or the Fit that it will not depreciate dramatically or be unreliable. GM has yet to prove itself in the eyes of the public that it really cares about making great small cars and is fully on par with Toyohonda on that front.

Lutz's (and for that matter Tom Freidman and other Volt swooners in the press) characterization of the Volt as some kind of "Savior" - a kind of automotive Messiah - truly misses the whole point of a fuel economy policy that is a Corporate AVERAGE.

Unless the Volt is totally 'mainstream' like an Impala or Malibu, it won't make much of dent in the CAFE figures. And certainly not at $40K apiece.

Instead of building one "Messiah" car, they should focus on trimming away the fat from the whole lineup.

What we can hope is that the Volt represents a kind of upfront investment in technology that can easily be transferred to other mere mortal GM cars - otherwise it's just a kind of Pink Elephant.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by Ming

Let's say it turns out to be close to a $35,000 purchase. Some people will pay that just to avoid the pain at the pump. But GM will still need a dual-pronged strategy that includes affordable, stylish and efficient subcompacts --- cars that get good fuel economy and save money up front with a low purchase price. As of right now, GM does not have a good enough selection of those sorts of cars for people to head to GM dealerships in search of fuel economy and savings. Again, Toyota and Honda stand poised to take more customers from GM who are just looking for something inexpensive and fuel efficient that has a good reputation for lasting and holding its value. These potentially lost customers are not looking for an expensive miracle car -- or a low-cost Chevy subcompact that GM has invested little in updating under the hood to keep competitive. They just want to know that when they buy GM's equivalent of the Civic or the Fit that it will not depreciate dramatically or be unreliable. GM has yet to prove itself in the eyes of the public that it really cares about making great small cars and is fully on par with Toyohonda on that front.

I agree that $35000 'feels' about right for this new technology. For a good long time it's going to be a niche anyway with volumes far lower than 'traditional' hybrids for a lot of reasons. A lot of the budget-conscious buyers aren't in a position to plug them in anyway. These vehicles are going to be targetted to a small section of well-to-do suburban commuters who are very conscious of the economy, the environment and political issues. The bulk of the population that's struggling to get by 'til next week's paycheck without their clunker falling apart around them are not targetted buyers. High performance buyers, 'I will live and die in my truck' buyers, SUV/Minivan Moms who need to carry the entire 5th grade are not targetted buyers. Inner city dwellers generally are not targetted buyers.

[TruckMan]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

tax breaks is one thing, tax rebates, is taking my money by Big government and giving it to big tobacco or big car

I'm with this guy. This pisses me off. I don't want my hard-earned tax money going to this. Just like I don't want my taxes going to bailing idiots out of their house forclosures. How about giving me a $7k rebate for being a responsible citizen and working hard and not going into debt?

Why isn't the money saved from not buying nearly as much gas incentive enough to buy this vehicle? Or are the people that buy these cars not smart enough to realize this? They must be the same ones asking the government for help with their home loans.

[Ming]

A bit off topic, but to add to my post above, I do think an Americas-produced Opel Corsa could be a great start. If Saturn sales do not pick up, just bite the bullet and use it as an Aveo replacement (and say buh-bye to Saturn). Much as I like the concept of the Aveo as a low cost car, GM seems unwilling to significantly improve the powertrain to keep up with cars like the Yaris.

Aveo: 24/34
Yaris: 29/35

The highway difference is negligible, but 5 miles per gallon in and around town, where most of these cars would seem to sell? Unacceptable.

I question just how much the engine in the Aveo has changed since the late 1990's Daewoo Lanos.

GM still sells old and/or inefficient engines in quite a few cars (Ye Olde 4.3LV6 in the 2008 Silverado regular cab, for example), so I doubt many at GM are stressing over how to fix this --- rather they would prefer to dazzle us with marketing campaigns that focus on the Aveo's highway numbers and continue to downplay the importance of investing in a really good, value-retaining subcompact.

Under the Corsa, a Beat-inspired Matiz reskin could take the Aveo's low price position. At least I know the Matiz had a rework of its engine a couple of years back to make it more fuel efficient.

And a Chevy Corsa, you say? Well, they sell them south of the border, so for immigrants here you have instant brand awareness. A Saturn Corsa would be subject to many of the problems the Astra (and Saturn brand as a whole) is encountering, and would sell from a small dealer base.

[JBsZ06]

The goverment should do it and the goverment should do it only for GM, Ford and Chrysler.

America first and only.

[ByTheLake]

Originally Posted by plane

Our government should never help domestic manufacturers.

Did Toyota get any government help to build a Kentucky plant?
Did the Prius receive any government rebates?
Did San Antonio provide any funding or tax breaks to secure a now-useless truck plant?

GM just needs to suck it up and make do.

Goodness, the Japanese government has funded tons of research for its automakers. If only the US government was as supportive.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by plane

Our government should never help domestic manufacturers.

Did Toyota get any government help to build a Kentucky plant?
Did the Prius receive any government rebates?
Did San Antonio provide any funding or tax breaks to secure a now-useless truck plant?

GM just needs to suck it up and make do.

HSD and Prius et al never would've gotten off the ground w/o all the Japan Inc. assists - including the damn currency subsidy for exports.

The American dollar Japanese Yen exchange rate has played the critical role in keeping it alive worldwide until the last, very recent surge in fuel prices.

Throw in all the other crap ie local incentives and federal tax rebates, HOV lane privilages etc - pretty obvious its never truly pulled its own weight in any normal sense of the word.

And it does matter that state provided monies etc were provided lavishly to Toyota to build plants here and there during this time period.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by YupYupYup

How do you know?

The Prius is not huge, but until recently sold at a premium. Still expensive for its class.

People will apy it...It is a game-changer with more value than a Prius. $30,000 U.S. dollars is cheap for a car in Australia.

Come again ????

At a premium - with massively larger than recognized fleet development programs and consumer rebates - and marketing support in general ???? ( USA )

What was it, an average rebate of just under 1600.00 USA $ for most of or all of 2007 ???

[benroethig]

Originally Posted by Whitesky

If they can give money to the damn farmers they can give it to the automakers!

They don't subsidized, they got out of business and you don't eat.

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Yes, let's hope.
Let's see, $40k-$7k tax break, that's $33k. Still a little pricey, but at the rate gas is going up right now, I'd go for it.

The problem is they say they need the tax break to get the Volt in under $40,000... that could mean that it will cost $46,999 - $7000 tax break = $39,999. Voila... under 40 grand.

[rsbaker]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Yes, let's hope.
Let's see, $40k-$7k tax break, that's $33k. Still a little pricey, but at the rate gas is going up right now, I'd go for it.

I agree! I am absolutely in favor of giving a big tax break to GM if it helps them get this car on the road at a reasonable price. The production cost will only go down when production number go up. With $4.00/Gallon gasoline. The savings of Volt will quickly pay for its $30K + sale price. Cut all tax breaks to Big Oil and give them to the Big 3 to produce hybrids and Electrics and Fuel Cells.

Despite all the $40k possible sale price talk, I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that GM finds a way to keep the initial base price right at or just below $30K. They promised a sub-$20K Soltice and delivered the first year maybe they can do it with Volt as well.

Does anyone know the estimated retail price of the Equinox fuel cell vehicle if GM were to rush it into production in the next 5 years or so?

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by JBsZ06

The goverment should do it and the goverment should do it only for GM, Ford and Chrysler.

America first and only.

Absolutely X3.

- as long as you do the same for -
our American bio fuels programs in general,
our American bio fuel compression ignition engines in particular,
our American longterm hydrogen programs
and everything else that is a better American alternative to -

a 48,000 $ with normal profit vehicle -

firesaled out of the gate at 40k with zero profit and

requiring a 7-10k subsidy so that enough people will buy it.

( To add possible insult to injury this will be possibly equipped with Chinese batteries or materials and magnets. )

While you're throwing money around that we don't have ( GM and the USA ) just go ahead and fund billions of dollars in all the other American non automotive energy programs we also need.

And make sure you keep going with all this as the economy falls apart and fuel/oil prices adjust down while we continue to ignore every single deep solution aspect to our situation because it would 'stick it' to certain, specific, economic power groups.

Might as well go ahead, you can always just print more money.

[usa1]

Before everyone thinks this is a great idea, consider these other great tax break ideas that are even better for the environment and world.

• Tax breaks for people that buy used cars.
• Tax breaks for people that don't own a car.
• Tax breaks for people that live close to work.
• Tax breaks for people that don't have kids.
• Tax breaks for people that live in small apartments.
• Tax breaks for people the telecommute.
• Tax breaks for vegetarians.
• Etc.

Government is a very, extremely, absurdly, blunt instrument. It should NOT be used often, if at all, in most cases, to "help" markets or products. If the Volt makes sense, it will sell. It does not need government hand outs.

Mark

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by zete

And that wording ensures it only applies to electric vehicles, as opposed to various hybrids that aren't really electric vehicles.

Let's hope it works out for GM.

Exactly & agreed.

And on the other as well.

[Vladimir1978]

Originally Posted by Whitesky

If they can give money to the damn farmers they can give it to the automakers!

Did you actually just equate the plight of farmers, who provide food to their nation, with that of automakers?

Absolutely amazing.