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GM hopes to lead industry in vehicle weight savings

12K views 178 replies 43 participants last post by  BlackGTP 
#1 ·
GM hopes to lead industry in vehicle weight savings
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/05/22/gm-hopes-lead-industry-vehicle-weight-savings/84736348/

May 22, 2016
Mark Phelan, Detroit Free Press



The time and money it takes converting a factory from building a steel vehicle to one that combines steel and aluminum would be slashed while GM’s competitors spend more to do the same thing.

Ford had to gut its Rouge assembly plant in Dearborn, Mich., to convert the F-150 from a steel body to aluminum. It lost months of production and spent many millions of dollars ripping out the old assembly line and installing a new one. If ongoing tests on the hood and rear seat of the CT6 pay off, GM could make the same conversion in a matter of weeks when the Chevy Silverado pickup adopts an aluminum body a couple of years from now.

Among reasons automakers haven’t been able to weld steel to aluminum, the two metals melt at vastly different temperatures. At the temperature where aluminum melts, steel is only getting warm. The automaker has 19 patents on the process that can do it.

“Weight reduction is critical to improving fuel economy, which, despite lower gas prices, still is important for consumers,” Autotrader senior analyst Michelle Krebs said. “When gas prices rise, as they surely will, buyers of trimmer General Motors vehicles like the Chevrolet Malibu will appreciate the automaker's light weighting efforts.”

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#2 ·
Good for GM, this may give them a leg up.

I was saying the same (for weight savings) on a Malibu thread regarding the small gas tank they used. GM's may start looking less impressive on paper (smaller brakes, gas tanks, etc), but their capabilities should be the same or better than their heavier competitors.
 
#5 ·
With the ct6 GM found that going with a steel floorpan is best for NVH. By the time they add additional sound insulation to the aluminum it negates the weight savings. And GM needs to quit with the small gas tanks. Cruising range is a very important part of ownership satisfaction. Ford has a huge advantage over GM in this regard.
 
#7 ·
The gas tank of the Malibu is comical; about the same as the Cruze and only 4 gallon bigger than the Volt, which gets 50 EV miles every night during re-charge.

Something else I noticed about the Malibu, the overall "smallness" of the rear end; a Fusion and Malibu were parked next to other, the Malibu rear is physically smaller/slimmer I could see 100-200 Lbs right there and I suspect the "space-savings" of the rear which shrunk the gas tank; a 16 gallon tank can't weight more than 2 lbs. more than a 13 gallon one.
 
#15 ·
You guys may think this is an absurd reason Not to buy a car. But every time I get interested in buying a CTSV gen 2 I come back to the 18 gallon gas tank and the 20 mpg hwy. max range of 360 miles doesn't cut it. I want something that is the 480-500 mile range on long trips.
 
#21 ·
Lets not forget that the previous gen f150 weighed 3-400 lbs more than silverado. I gotta think that GMs profit per unit on the slverado was greater than ford's because they didn't have to buy that much more steel and form it. GM has an amazing amount of experience with aluminum and lightweighting The 1977 redesigned B body's that turned the industry on its ear weighed 700 lbs less than the previous gen AND had aluminum hoods......and for 1980 GM lightweighted them again.
 
#27 ·
Among reasons automakers haven’t been able to weld steel to aluminum, the two metals melt at vastly different temperatures. At the temperature where aluminum melts, steel is only getting warm. The automaker has 19 patents on the process that can do it.
Good for GM, that is some impressive tech. But since they apparently created and patented this process, what are other companies to do? Not use aluminum to lighten their vehicles? Sure, there's a big cost to switching a plant, but once it's done it's done, and all automakers can use aluminum in their vehicles that way. Besides, for now, GM hasn't done this on any mass scale, so we'll see how fast they implement it.

Also, there was a report recently that showed that aluminum F-150 repair rates weren't any higher than the previous steel versions, or industry averages (will dig up the article and share it)...
 
#31 ·
So I guess that "Road-Hugging Weight! Not Actors!" ad campaign is on hold?
 
#48 ·
So what some of you are saying is that the cruising range plays no role in a car purchase? IMO ford has a noticeable advantage over the gm trucks in this regard. I average 20,000 miles a year on two cars sometimes 24k. When I'm driving the gto 15 mpg and a 18 gallon tank gets old real quick. But out on the hwy 24 mpg and the 18 gallon tank, I have no complaints.
 
#53 ·
Even if it isn't about max range you still have to plan for gas stops. If Im on a road trip the last thing I want to do is stop at a rest stop AND stop at a gas station. Knock two stops out at once and save 15 minutes on the total trip time for each stop you don't make. Add in kids under 10 and the max range argument is completely senseless.


Are you saying you go out of your way to get gas?
 
#64 ·
Not the gas tank thing again...

Always the same thing with Ed - he only focuses on the things that Ford does better but not GM. "Ford is better because they have larger gas tanks, but I'll ignore the fact that GM gets better fuel economy and has a larger standard tank." "Ford is better because they use AL in one vehicle, but I'll ignore the fact that GM vehicles are still lighter."
 
#71 ·
That is VERY interesting, hadn't noticed that, good to know! :clap:

So is GM "Pulling a Ford" giving a puny gas tank in lower models, forcing you to pony-up if you want the bigger one?



Yes, that is exactly right. Thank god for the better safety of the rest stops. ;) Let's forget about the whole fact that there are service stations that have food places in them, nice restrooms or anything of that sort. You know, just to make your argument better. Just stop. If you are driving for any length of time and have the ability to stop and get gas you should do it. No way would I intentionally stop and have 1/4 tank of gas just to have to stop again.

Again, if you are going on a 8-10 hour trip, you are still going to stop and fill up when you can.
In reference to "safer" was talking about a 3 or 73 year old "sprinting" across a busy gas station parking lot, I know you don't have kids, so I'll give you a pass for not understanding......... ;)

:cool:
 
#66 ·
And FYI, I live in Texas and I road-trip quite often. Family all over the state/Louisiana and we like to drive to Colorado during the summer. And we like to avoid the interstate whenever possible. I have never planned a trip around my fuel range. This has never been an issue. You get gas when you stop for food/bathroom. Even if you got 15 mpg at 70 mph, it would still take >5 hours to go through a tank of gas. That's a rare situation.

Last summer I averaged 18.5 mpg over two weeks driving to/from Colorado with family of 5, a bed full of camping gear, and several days of off-roading. This is a stupid argument that 99% of buyers don't care about.
 
#76 · (Edited)
Maybe it's a Michigan thing? Even the small back towns in TX have at least one nice, new gas station. Many of them have a McDonald's, Subway, or similar in them.

Are clean gas stations more than 500 miles apart in Michigan? That's a shame.

And how is a gas station parking lot unsafe? I've never heard of this danger zone. Most of the documentation I've seen says that sleepy, inattentive and drunk drivers are the leading cause of accidents. Seems to me that stopping and stretching frequently is better, not the other way around.

Ed, I take it that your little one is still a diaper, so you don't yet understand the joys of stopping every 2-3 hours to go potty. Your ignorance gets a pass for now...
 
#82 ·
Maybe it's a Michigan thing? Even the small back towns in TX have at least one nice, new gas station. Many of them have a McDonald's, Subway, or similar in them.
Or maybe it is a Texas thing?

Are clean gas stations more than 500 miles apart in Michigan? That's a shame.
www.cleanbathroomsinsmalltowns.com lists them all, or if you choose; just download the app.

And how is a gas station parking lot unsafe? I've never heard of this danger zone. Most of the documentation I've seen says that sleepy, inattentive and drunk drivers are the leading cause of accidents. Seems to me that stopping and stretching frequently is better, not the other way around.
Terrorist, Gun-Fights, Gang-banger, Uber Drivers, Scumbags......... Please explain how walking across a gas station lot is safer than a rest stop.



Ed, I take it that your little one is still a diaper, so you don't yet understand the joys of stopping every 2-3 hours to go potty. Your ignorance gets a pass for now...
There you go thinking again.............. But lets expand on your point of small bladders and frequent stops, both my (potty-trained) 3-year old daughter, and my enlarged postate 73 year old father; we had to stop 45 minuets ago at the rest rest stop, now you and your small gas tank have to stop again, while I can keep going until the next "emergency"........... See how that works, unlike other "things" there is no advantage to a small tank.

;)


I gotta say if you have a 3 or a 73 year old you're stopping a lot more often to use the bathroom then the range of your fuel tank.
No they both wear diaper, heck we all wear diapers.................
 
#80 ·
I think the takeaway with Ed's gas tank size is that it DOES matter to some and could impact sales. The question is how many and is it a meaningful numbers vs. the impact to the corporate average mpg requirements. I get what GM is trying to do, and I applaud it. It will be nice to read how GM's cars are the lightest in their respective segments and most likely will handle better as well. But what will this cost GM in sales because they didn't put in a slightly larger gas tank?
 
#81 ·
At 13 gallons and getting the 27MPG the Malibu with the 1.5T is rated it that is still 350 miles per "tank" for city driving. That is a pretty damn decent range. On the highway at 37MPG that is still 475 miles. Again, that is damn decent range.

The fact that this argument is happening shows you how far some people have to go to find a ***** for the most part. The range. In a nation where there is a gas station every 2 miles on average.
 
#89 ·
Many states are closing rest areas near urban areas because they cost too much to operate and there is no reason to have rest areas open near commercial area just off the interstate. Some are being converted to truck parking area with no facilities. Rest areas made sense when there was nothing on or near the interstate.
 
#101 ·
Speaking of gas stations...http://www.fox4news.com/news/144052545-story Buc-ee's just opened this morning right down the road from me. They claim to have the cleanest, nicest bathrooms on the road.

I guess it must be a Texas thing - or at least not a Northern thing? Rest areas are only on the interstates, and mostly truckers stop at them. We always plan to stop when we travel so we usually stop for gas, food, and bathroom. All at once. We don't stop for bathroom and then wait 20 minutes to stop for food and then 30 minutes for gas. We're fortunate that we can eat food at various times of the day and my truck takes fuel even when it's not 100% empty. Must be a Texas thing?
 
#102 ·
Speaking of gas stations...http://www.fox4news.com/news/144052545-story Buc-ee's just opened this morning right down the road from me. They claim to have the cleanest, nicest bathrooms on the road.
So now you are stopping, almost as soon as you get going?............

Since they make the effort to make the claim, I suspect Texas gas stations are just like every other gas station............


I guess it must be a Texas thing - or at least not a Northern thing? Rest areas are only on the interstates, and mostly truckers stop at them. We always plan to stop when we travel so we usually stop for gas, food, and bathroom. All at once. We don't stop for bathroom and then wait 20 minutes to stop for food and then 30 minutes for gas. We're fortunate that we can eat food at various times of the day and my truck takes fuel even when it's not 100% empty. Must be a Texas thing?
You know, my truck does too, I just have a lot "larger window" not having your gas tank dictate every-other move is a liberating thing, might explain some your anger issues, oh well; I guess we've all got a "triggers" of some sort.

Wishing you the best,
Ed
 
#106 ·
Maybe it's because I just woke up from a nap and I'm still half asleep, but WTF are you guys discussing in this thread?
Something to do with losing weight. Time to begin your calisthenic exercises for the evening Envoy4Life! ;)
 
#108 ·
For the folks that do not understand the fuel tank size thing, spend some time on truck forums. I can relate that it isn't really a big deal in a car, but in a truck it is.

You would be amazed at how many people held off of getting the AL F150 until they could order the 36-gallon tank (it was a late availability). If you read general truck forums, you will see fuel tank envy from GM truck fans.

It isn't really a big deal when empty and driving down the interstate. The big deal comes when hauling or towing, where your fuel economy can be cut in half. Then, the constant stops for fuel start to get real annoying.

As for the rest of the arguing.................. LOL. All of the Big 3 trucks are fantastic. Buy the one you like. For some, it will be an automatic "I'm a ________ truck man!!!" For others, like Ed, it is whatever truck fits his needs the best, at that time. For those folks that do switch brands, it would behoove the manufacturers who lost out to acknowledge why they left, and do something to fix it. I will say for some who make fun of features and options available on the Ford trucks, try to understand where they came from. Ford listened to their truck buyers and gave them, or made available what they wanted. GM could learn from that.
 
#109 ·
Stop being reasonable, it doesn't fit you're EXTREME tag! :)
 
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