GM, Ford Should Receive $25 BILLION in Plant Aid, Dingell Says

[GMinTheDriveway]

Originally Posted by Patate

"SARCASM"

I agree, it's better to WASTE billions in a stupid war than to LEND money to a struggling industry that employs hundreads of thousands well paid workers.

The Japanese governement financed ToyHonda's hybrid program.. how can The Big 3 compete with that? Manufacturing companies, whether they are making automobiles, planes, or any other high-tech products, need governement help now, the " it's private companies, we don't help them" mentality is irrelevant now.

Actually, the American public financed the Japanese Hybrid program buy continually purchasing Japanese products and services when there were clear alternatives. Now there aren't any alternatives that make financial sense. Pray for the American Sheep to change their ways or bow down to our eastern owners from Japan, China, India and Korea et al., inc.

[dagr382]

Originally Posted by LAMRONH

Well put.

People forget that manufacturing is a defense issue, it's a strategic necessity for the nation's survival.

We would indeed have been fighting off the Japanese and Germans in the hills, with our 30.06s and 30-30s in 1942 if GM, Ford, and Chrysler did not exist. The miracles of wartime production these and other corporations like our steel mills--now mostly DOA--created a force for freedom that could not be stopped.
And so today we are free to have this discussion, instead of living under brutal, totalitarian German and Japanese masters.

The overeducated/underintelligent America-sucks New World Order products of the Harvard-Yale Axis who turn up their noses at all things American think we can live in a "service industry" age.
Smart as they think they are, they apparently don't know that someone has to actually produce things to support "service."

Since the Japanese government aids their auto industry, and restricts ours from entry there, I would say turnabout is certainly fair play.

This is something one or both presidential candidates will probably get aboard with, if their handlers feed them the right trail mix some morning.

Well said!!!

[GM-Joe]

From what I have heard, the Japanese govt. paid for the hybrid technology research and development for Toyota, though Toyota was prosecuted for stealing some technology from a Miami based company; I do think that the U.S. govt. should do something. The auto industry is the most important industry for any govt. because of the extreme money cycle it creates; unlike the worst thing, an atomic bomb. So they should help the American auto makers, instead of giving away the industry to the Japanese who will still import half their cars and three quarters of their components for this market.

[steinravnik]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

They have slave and child labor in China and Africa, how is the US supposed to compete with that? Should we also allow slave and child labor in the US? Does that make it right? The Soviets had government funded everything, and that worked out so great for them.

If we have problems competing with industries from other countries because of unfair practices, we should address that via tariffs, not by duplicating their socialist programs in our country. And the auto industry is no more special than any other industry, do it for them, and you have to do it for every industry.


That being said, I'm much less against loaning companies money at cheap rates than just giving them the money or giving people tax incentives to buy vehicles. As long as the companies don't borrow the money and then go bankrupt. If we keep giving people/companies free money, there is no incentive to be responsible or do better the next time around.

I agree with what you have said, and I generally believe in free markets. However, like Lamronh said, some industries are critical and are too important to fail. I think automotive is one.

I think the gov't needs to tread carefully, however. If companies/industries believe that they will continually get bailed out in their time of trouble, this will undermine the entire system.

[scooter10572]

Originally Posted by markform

Bad idea. If anybody is in worse shape than GM, it is the federal government.

Let GM go into bankruptcy. Let the millionaire dealers, highly paid executives, etc. take it on the chin. Especially the thousands of dealers that GM doesn't need. These dealers are millionaires, and they (or their heirs) are sitting around, waiting for GM to close a division, so they can walk away with a huge settlement.

you obviously dont work for a dealer as I do,you think that all dealers are millionaires?what ****ing planet are you from?I work for a small dealer thats been there 50 years and every year gets worse,so tell it to all the employees that have to go on unemployment that gm should just go under and into bankruptcy.just what our economy needs,thousands more unemployed?

[Blair1955]

I read many of the posts here and wonder why as Americans we are not more willing to support US companies? In other countries people there support the products made there. I understand global trade but I want fair trade too. I see people here in Tennessee driving foreign cars, shopping at Wal Mart and complaining that they don’t make enough money to support their families.

[tgagneguam]

Hand-ups are fine; the US automakers absolutely should be expected to pay back these loans.

Hand-outs-be that corporate welfare or welfare for individual citizens-are harmful, no matter how some may intellectualize it. And, no, it's not a new political idea, either, Obama.

Funny, mums the word on the real action government can take to help out American industry: US companies pay the second highest taxes of any industrialized nation (except Japan). But some will support tax breaks to give a smidgen of that money being collected back to companies. Yup, that sure will be helpful.

And I think we need to legislate to death the business of business in this country. While I'm aware many clock in hours like automatons in this nation and see fit to having a higher power tell them what to do, I have never believed government knows better how to run my business. As a small business owner-one of the real engines of job growth in this country, I might add-I can tell you that given the choice of less government interference, be that government constantly dipping its god-damned hands in my business checking account for a nearly infinite number of taxes and fees or in the form of useless, burdensome oversight versus given me a little money in the form of a tax break or a one-time payment, I'll take less interference any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Please, all of the people who don't run businesses, who are not charged with managing an operation, go back to suggesting how government is obligated to "help" business. I watch with bated breath for these posts.

[tgagneguam]

Originally Posted by Blair1955

I read many of the posts here and wonder why as Americans we are not more willing to support US companies? In other countries people there support the products made there. I understand global trade but I want fair trade too. I see people here in Tennessee driving foreign cars, shopping at Wal Mart and complaining that they don’t make enough money to support their families.

So, you believe that buying American, quality be damned, is supporting America? Hmmm, I think it's misleading America. And I think people having purchased poor-quality Detroit cars in the 80's, 90's and earlier part of this decade is why Detroit suffers today.

And I await your response from your Chinese-assembled computer, wearing your Indonesian-made clothing, sitting on your Malayasian-made chair in the house fueled by electricity from natural gas from Canada. Being an American patriot means buying the foreign-sourced product when that foreign-sourced product is superior.

[tgagneguam]

Originally Posted by steinravnik

I agree with what you have said, and I generally believe in free markets. However, like Lamronh said, some industries are critical and are too important to fail. I think automotive is one...

Funny, I, too, believe in free markets, which is why I believe Detroit needs to sink or swim. Actually, it has been when government interfered before-negotiating voluntary restrictions in the 1980's, producing silly tax breaks on SUV's, CAFE(!)-that Detroit was harmed by government action. I am no more faithful today that Washington would do well to offer assistance to Detroit. Rather, the further away Washington moves from Detroit, the better off Detroit will be. Not so clear why that seems to be such a foreign concept.

[tgagneguam]

Originally Posted by LAMRONH

...Since the Japanese government aids their auto industry, and restricts ours from entry there, I would say turnabout is certainly fair play.

Come on, LAMRONH, I've read your posts and know that you are way too sensible to know that this strategy has never worked out. Foreign nations-especially the ones who are smart enough to buy all of our debt-would simply follow your motto, and other industries in which we enjoy an arguable advantage-semiconductors, commercial aircraft, farm products-would suffer because Japan levies unfair taxes on a ****ty, undesireable-to-the-Japanese consumer Trailblazer? That makes absolutely no sense. No trade wars! Everyone's businesses suffer.

Wish fulfillment is a fun fantasy; in reality, it's gonna take a little more than that to beat Japanese-branded vehicles.

[Blair1955]

tgagneguam

No I do think when I buy a product I expect quality. I don’t buy just because it’s American built. I do believe that American products are as good as any made elsewhere.


Yes my computer was made in Asia; much of my clothing is made in the US. It’s not easy to find but there are web sites that sell American products. If I could buy consumer electronics made in the US I would, that is hardly an option now. The furniture in my house dates back more than 50 years and was made here too. I just had some of it refurbished and should last longer than I will be around. For me isn’t about being a patriot but am tired of watching jobs and dollars leaving the US. Out trade deficit rises every year because we import so many goods. Even if a Honda is assembled here the profits don’t stay here but they also add to our debt.